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Bankruptsy - 11/3/2008 7:39:32 AM
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bzymom5
Posts: 3
Joined: 11/3/2008
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Hi All,
I'm new to the board here! Got a question/need some suggestions. Dh and I are Christians and have been for about 10 years. Long story short we are in MASSIVE Credit card debt. Dh is no longer getting ot due to economy, and can't even find a second job in our area. We looked into credit counseling, however we still wouldn't be able to afford that payment plus keep our home, we absolutly will NOT sell our home at this time the market is super yuk here, and we would be upsidedown. We came to the conclusion to file bankruptsy. I am just SICK over this, I am angry at my husband, and feeling completely seperated from GOD over this issue. Any suggestions on dealing with this? It's in the process, and the thought of going to court makes me feel physically sick.
Any suggestions???????
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/3/2008 8:33:22 AM
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DeeAnnBailey
Posts: 2628
Joined: 3/23/2006
From: SC
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First, you and your husband need to understand how you got there. If you don't, bankruptcy is just a band aid. Second, the best thing you can do is confess your anger to God and to your husband, ask for forgiveness and move forward. I don't know how you got there and even though the 2 of you need to face that and take steps to keep from going there again, you have to put the anger away if you want to move forward in His will.
Are you filing chapter 13 or chapter 7? Did you contact your credit card companies before filing and see if they would lower the interest before filing?
As a Christian I believe you should pay those debts even if you get them cleared 'legally' and even though it will take longer than the standard. That is what I advise people when they come to me on things of this nature.
I would recommend you get some good Christian financial training. If I can be of further help, please let me know.
_____________________________
D. Ann Bailey
My Blog Dee's Delights and Delusions
<<<<<<The love of my life - precious Erin!
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/3/2008 9:15:40 AM
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bzymom5
Posts: 3
Joined: 11/3/2008
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We have filed for CHapter 7. We did contact all the companies, alot offered to lower the cards to 19% interest. That is still too high for us to pay, most cards were at 30% before we decieded to file. Even with the lower rates we still couldnt' afford the payments, we would have still been in the negative each month.
< Message edited by bzymom5 -- 11/3/2008 9:28:57 AM >
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/3/2008 9:27:39 AM
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bzymom5
Posts: 3
Joined: 11/3/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: seagullplayer
Do you feel your husband is to blame?
Did you lose your job too?
Sounds like you have a long road out, it's one thing to lose the house, it is another to lose your HOME... 
I am putting the blame on dh for sure. Finanaces have always been an issue in our relationship. We are together for 20 years now and it hasn't changed. At first I was in charge of the money, but when dh would "ask" for things and was told "no" it became a point of contention in our marriage, so I gave him the finances. He would then not pay, pay late etc, and hand to back to me to fix. We refied the house TWICE to pay off cc debt in the past, hence why we can't sell now or refi to fix the problem. The last time when I was handed the stuff and told to fix it I couldn't . We were in forclosure proceedings, and about 55,000 in cc debt which without overtime is his salary for the year. Now most of the debt was due to late fees, over the limit fees, and cards at 30%interest rates.
My dh is a good man otherwise but just doesn't get the money issue.
I do not work as I homeschool all the children. ANd in NJ it wouldn't pay for me to work and have to pay daycare for children.
I have asked GOD for forgivenss, but I'm having a hard time moving past it. I'm really upset with dh. and the lack of wanting to change his behavior.
I am not a spender, never have been. Probably due to history of growing up with a single mom, I'm much more of a saver. Thus why the issue. Dh would see $$ in the bank and think we could spend it whereas I would say no.
I feel I personally am better with finances, but with his last take over his used up savings, cashed in his retirement, never said a word to me until I got the forclousure papers. Then asked me to fix it. I was able to fix the mortgage but let cc go.
We just did a Max Lucado study with church, but I would love something more meatier. Dh wants to learn but I think that's b/c we are in dire straights right now.
I'm hurt and can't seem to move past that part of it.
Hope I made some sense here.
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/3/2008 9:38:58 AM
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DeeAnnBailey
Posts: 2628
Joined: 3/23/2006
From: SC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzymom5
quote:
ORIGINAL: seagullplayer
Do you feel your husband is to blame?
Did you lose your job too?
Sounds like you have a long road out, it's one thing to lose the house, it is another to lose your HOME...
I am putting the blame on dh for sure. Finanaces have always been an issue in our relationship. We are together for 20 years now and it hasn't changed. At first I was in charge of the money, but when dh would "ask" for things and was told "no" it became a point of contention in our marriage, so I gave him the finances. He would then not pay, pay late etc, and hand to back to me to fix. We refied the house TWICE to pay off cc debt in the past, hence why we can't sell now or refi to fix the problem. The last time when I was handed the stuff and told to fix it I couldn't . We were in forclosure proceedings, and about 55,000 in cc debt which without overtime is his salary for the year. Now most of the debt was due to late fees, over the limit fees, and cards at 30%interest rates.
My dh is a good man otherwise but just doesn't get the money issue.
I do not work as I homeschool all the children. ANd in NJ it wouldn't pay for me to work and have to pay daycare for children.
I have asked GOD for forgivenss, but I'm having a hard time moving past it. I'm really upset with dh. and the lack of wanting to change his behavior.
I am not a spender, never have been. Probably due to history of growing up with a single mom, I'm much more of a saver. Thus why the issue. Dh would see $$ in the bank and think we could spend it whereas I would say no.
I feel I personally am better with finances, but with his last take over his used up savings, cashed in his retirement, never said a word to me until I got the forclousure papers. Then asked me to fix it. I was able to fix the mortgage but let cc go.
We just did a Max Lucado study with church, but I would love something more meatier. Dh wants to learn but I think that's b/c we are in dire straights right now.
I'm hurt and can't seem to move past that part of it.
Hope I made some sense here.
I've seen this many times and I am praying for you and your husband. He truly must be ready to change to avoid this being a repeated and your frustrastion and hurt is understandable. Crown Financial has some excellent help and there are others but I'd have to look them up. First and foremost, both of you need to realize it isn't yours to save or his to spend. Everything you have belongs to God and you are to be good stewards of what He has given you. I would encourage you to tithe if you don't already and let God show you how He wants you to handle this. As humans we can give a lot of advicd but God has a plan for you and if you both are willing to seek His direction He will get you through this.
First you must get a budget that cuts out any extras and doesn't rely on OT or a second job to pay your bills. Once you get some of this paid down, set aside a portion that you can spend and a portion you save.
If you will PM me your email, I'll send you some info I have on managing finances.
_____________________________
D. Ann Bailey
My Blog Dee's Delights and Delusions
<<<<<<The love of my life - precious Erin!
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/3/2008 12:19:22 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2002
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzymom5
I am putting the blame on dh for sure. Finanaces have always been an issue in our relationship. We are together for 20 years now and it hasn't changed. At first I was in charge of the money, but when dh would "ask" for things and was told "no" it became a point of contention in our marriage, so I gave him the finances.
I understand your frustration, but you have to remember that your name is on the credit card. That credit card is your responsibility, and as it appears that you are the responsible in the relationship, you should have been even better than him at keeping up with the credit cards bills.
quote:
He would then not pay, pay late etc, and hand to back to me to fix. We refied the house TWICE to pay off cc debt in the past, hence why we can't sell now or refi to fix the problem. The last time when I was handed the stuff and told to fix it I couldn't . We were in forclosure proceedings, and about 55,000 in cc debt which without overtime is his salary for the year. Now most of the debt was due to late fees, over the limit fees, and cards at 30%interest rates.
My dh is a good man otherwise but just doesn't get the money issue.
As a banker (credit analyst) myself, I find myself on the other side of the story to some degree (although I work a bit more with corporate debt). If you are able to pay back the $55K, then please do, but when you're paying $10.5K/year in interest, it is difficult to see that happening. If you can't pay that money back, I don't fault you for declaring BK. Credit cards carry the high interest rates they carry because us bankers *know* they are a huge credit risk. You've notified the banks that you can't keep up with 30% interest, let alone 19%, and if they aren't going to help you any more, the most compassionate thing you can do for the banks is declare bankruptcy. This reduces the uncertainty and gives them an orderly way of recovering some of the money you've borrowed from them.
I think part of the reason you feel separated from God is that you've probably been under a lot of stress. But bankruptcy doesn't separate you from God- irresponsible borrowing does. IMHO, you should feel guilty for the borrowing, not for the BK. Unless you're earning the $150K+/year I think it'll take to service this debt, I'm not really sure you have a choice in the matter. There's a lot of reasons we feel separated from God, but if we are truly repentant- for whatever it is that we may have done in the past- then God doesn't want us separated from him. Methinks you may just be a little stressed out (who wouldn't be), and that may be what is causing some of those feelings. Resolve to end your prodical spending and be financially responsible, and try to relax and know that God will take care of you and your family.
quote:
I do not work as I homeschool all the children. ANd in NJ it wouldn't pay for me to work and have to pay daycare for children.
I have asked GOD for forgivenss, but I'm having a hard time moving past it. I'm really upset with dh. and the lack of wanting to change his behavior.
I am not a spender, never have been. Probably due to history of growing up with a single mom, I'm much more of a saver. Thus why the issue. Dh would see $$ in the bank and think we could spend it whereas I would say no.
So the issue here, it seems, is that the Mr. is the primary wage-earner in the family, but Mrs. is the one with the financial sense. Hopefully, your husband will listen to you a little better the next time you say that the family needs to save $XYZ. I've found that it's almost always good to explain your thinking:
"Dear, it's not cheap living here in NJ. We will need to save up at least $1.5 million to retire comfortably. I know it's really tempting to spend that $500 right now on a computer, but if we can get 9% growth on it for 20 more years, that's enough to pay for a motorcycle. Or a few months rent. If we delay gratification today, we'll thank ourselves later."
quote:
I feel I personally am better with finances, but with his last take over his used up savings, cashed in his retirement, never said a word to me until I got the forclousure papers. Then asked me to fix it. I was able to fix the mortgage but let cc go.
We just did a Max Lucado study with church, but I would love something more meatier. Dh wants to learn but I think that's b/c we are in dire straights right now.
The factual statements you've made make it clear to me that there's really no question that you're better- or at least more conservative (read: responsible), and hopefully he will realize this. He now (hopefully) sees you as the responsible person who saved the house.
Going forward, you need to come up with a plan for taking care of everything that needs to be taken care of, while also minimizing the complaining. A good thing you can do here is try to find your own source of income, IMHO. Maybe you can work part-time or start an online business on ebay from home. If you are bringing money in, you can say, "Hey, I'm contributing my earnings to pay for all of these expenses, too. I know it's painful, but we're in this together, and this is something we have to do."
It also gives you leverage to spend money on stuff you might want to spend on (like furniture, clothing, or kitchen appliances.) My Dad didn't want to spend as much money on furniture as my Mom wanted him to. Mom loved Dad a whole lot and realized that new furniture wasn't a need, so she started a home wine business and used the money from that to buy a sofa and get the kitchen remodeled.
I would also recommend sitting down with your husband and coming up with a budget. It might look something like this:
SAMPLE BUDGET:
Husband's take-home pay: $7,000/month.
Mortgage payment: $2,000/month
Property tax savings: $400/month ($4800 due every April)
Maintenance allowance: $250/month (last year we spent $1000 on fixing the gutters $2000 on getting the house painted.)
Utilities: $300/month
Home Insurance: $100/month
Groceries: $700/month
Clothing/supplies for the kids: $500/month.
Gasoline: $100/month
Car Maintenance: $100/month
Car Insurance: $150/month
Retirement savings: $1,000/month (We will need $1.5 million to retire when we hit age 65 and live on just $5000/month)
Rainy day savings: $700/month (it's a recession, and we should have money saved up in case anything happens to the job market.)
Money left over for husband to spend on whatever he wants: $700/month, or $160/week.
quote:
I'm hurt and can't seem to move past that part of it.
Hope I made some sense here.
I know it's tough, but I am under the impression that your husband just had no idea what he was doing; he wasn't deliberately trying to bring the two of you into bankruptcy. It does mean going forward, however, that you have to assume that responsibility for your family's finances falls solely on you (perhaps it's best when both spouses make this assumption, but it's especially important for you to make it).
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 11/3/2008 12:30:29 PM >
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/3/2008 4:50:13 PM
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S-Llama
Posts: 53
Joined: 11/1/2006
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Go to www.daveramsey.com
My wife and I are going through a course called Financial Peace University and it has been way beneficial for us.
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/10/2008 9:19:53 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1414
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: S-Llama
Go to www.daveramsey.com
My wife and I are going through a course called Financial Peace University and it has been way beneficial for us.
over the past 5 years, what we learned from taking Financial Peace Univ. got our finances turned around entirely. We WERE $25,000+ in credit card debt (primarily from a cycle of layoffs and unemployment).....fortunately, we were able to manage through, get a plan, and got rid of that in about 3 1/2 years.
The instruction and guidance we got while taking FPU was vital.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/16/2008 9:02:40 PM
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annieflowergirl
Posts: 82
Joined: 2/28/2007
From: Indiana
Status: offline
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Sadly, My husband and are filing for Chapter 7. NEVER would I have thought that this would happen. My husband for years had a great job. Then he got hurt at work. It has been a downfall since then. He went from a 28.00 dollar an hour to 10.50. He had 27 years with the company he worked for, they weren't willing to let him work. Anyway, we have had to pay so much out of pocket for medical bills. We sold are house, sold his new truck, sold alot of antique furniture. Still can't make it. Now we might have to sell this house we are in. I can't find work. We are just at the beginning of starting this. It is all so overwhelming. The paper work etc. I know my husband feels like such a failure. The list just goes on and on. I keep praying for Gods direction and will.
_____________________________
"Live Simply, Love Generously, Care Deeply, Speak Kindly, Leave The Rest To God"
Lee Ann
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/17/2008 10:38:20 AM
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DeeAnnBailey
Posts: 2628
Joined: 3/23/2006
From: SC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: annieflowergirl
Sadly, My husband and are filing for Chapter 7. NEVER would I have thought that this would happen. My husband for years had a great job. Then he got hurt at work. It has been a downfall since then. He went from a 28.00 dollar an hour to 10.50. He had 27 years with the company he worked for, they weren't willing to let him work. Anyway, we have had to pay so much out of pocket for medical bills. We sold are house, sold his new truck, sold alot of antique furniture. Still can't make it. Now we might have to sell this house we are in. I can't find work. We are just at the beginning of starting this. It is all so overwhelming. The paper work etc. I know my husband feels like such a failure. The list just goes on and on. I keep praying for Gods direction and will.
You are in my prayers as well. Recovering from this type of problem is difficult but God will bring you through. There are several financial groups that offer help, some are mentioned above. Use those resources! Please let me know if I have any info you can use.
_____________________________
D. Ann Bailey
My Blog Dee's Delights and Delusions
<<<<<<The love of my life - precious Erin!
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/18/2008 4:19:14 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 8071
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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I don't think the op needs financial counseling. The problem is that her husband is in sin over the finances and he refuses to repent. Personally, I would take it through the biblical steps of confronting a brother who is in sin. This is not really a finances issue. It is a marriage issue.
_____________________________
My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/19/2008 9:14:50 AM
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annieflowergirl
Posts: 82
Joined: 2/28/2007
From: Indiana
Status: offline
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We are going to see a lawyer this morning. To see if we qualify. I hate this. Feel like such a failure. 25 years of marriage and it comes to this.
_____________________________
"Live Simply, Love Generously, Care Deeply, Speak Kindly, Leave The Rest To God"
Lee Ann
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/19/2008 10:21:23 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2864
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: annieflowergirl
We are going to see a lawyer this morning. To see if we qualify. I hate this. Feel like such a failure. 25 years of marriage and it comes to this.
I know it's tough to do, but try not to let those negative emotions suck the life out of the two of you. Lots of people are going through this these days - you'll be OK.
You're not a failure. There's a difference between making some mistakes and being a failure. We all make mistakes. Mine might not be as visible as yours, but I've made my fair share. We all have. The fact that we're aware of that and have asked for forgiveness is what makes us Christians. God calls us his children. He doesn't call us "his little failures."
Chin up - like the doctor told my mother when she had her kidney stone problems, "this too shall pass." It won't feel very good in the passing, but it will pass.
BT
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/22/2008 12:12:48 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2940
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: annieflowergirl
We are going to see a lawyer this morning. To see if we qualify. I hate this. Feel like such a failure. 25 years of marriage and it comes to this.
Since yours was mostly due to medical things, I think in your case, neither you nor your husband are at fault.
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RE: Bankruptsy - 11/24/2008 10:37:23 AM
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annieflowergirl
Posts: 82
Joined: 2/28/2007
From: Indiana
Status: offline
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well we went, and feel alittle bit better now. He was so SURPRISED that we were current on all bills. But we have only enough left for one more month. He said that he hated for us to get bad credit. See me husband has some money comming from his accident. But you know how slow those things can be from insurance companies. So he told us for right now to pay the min. on the two smallest bills. and to let the big one go for a couple months. Then the cc company might work with us on lowing our interest rate and the monthy bill. I don't know, i just sit there and cried.
STill trying to find a job. Another Big factory is closing, 2nd one this month. The only thing I can think to do until I find a job is selling some of my antique things on Ebay. But I tell you, you just can't get the money out of some things nowdays like you could of a couple years ago.
Thank you all for your concern and prayers. God Bless you All!!
_____________________________
"Live Simply, Love Generously, Care Deeply, Speak Kindly, Leave The Rest To God"
Lee Ann
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Bankruptcy - 12/3/2008 11:42:30 AM
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caramelkisses
Posts: 1
Joined: 12/3/2008
Status: offline
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I recently filed Chapter 13, because I retired to soon and my mortgage was not paid off. Chapter 13 allows me to keep my house and my car while paying a trustee to pay off my remaining debts at lower rates. I also made the mistake of signing up for a resort. At the begining, I thought I could afford the monthly payments, but then they added maintenance fees. This made my payments more than the mortgage on my residential property. So I had to let it go. I am still considering selling my residential property and moving into an apartment, just so I won't have the expense of upkeep. Please pray for me, because I would like to think the right decision was made to file Chapter 13 and work with my creditors, but I am unsure as to whether I will be able to short sell my home or even be accepted into an apartment complex. Uncertainty is where I am now.
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RE: Bankruptcy - 12/3/2008 2:15:01 PM
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3tulips
Posts: 319
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: sandy shore
Status: offline
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debtproofliving.com is another great site. Mary Hunt researches everything and she has a wonderful testimony about getting out of massive credit card debt and staying out.
_____________________________
I opened up the mouth of love and found the wisdom tooth. Larry Norman 1947 - 2008
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