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Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 11/17/2008 12:19:44 AM
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helovesme72
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In this atmosphere most board members will urge caution and delay “until things start getting better.” If we enter a long recession, it will be hard to launch any big new building program.
That quote is from this article: http://www.drurywriting.com/keith/recession.depression.htm
It's an article that I dug up while struggling with my reluctance to participate my church's building project during these times when people are struggling to keep food on the table!
Is it just me, or does it seem a bit frivolous for a church to launch - or forge ahead with - building a new building during these times? My thinking is that unless your church is literally crumbling and unsafe to worship in, lavish plans for new sanctuaries could and should be put on hold until economic conditions improve.
Now I know that some would argue that the church should not take its lead from the world and that God will make a way, regardless of what our circumstances look like. Well, pardon me for being too practical, but I'll say that I think these kind of times are when ministry leaders should be encouraging their members to shore up should things worsen - and they probably will! For Heaven's sake, shouldn't we be encouraging members to pay off debts and IMMEDIATELY stop charging things - unless it's an emergency. Families - and the church as a whole - should be saving what discretionary income they have so that we can help one another and those who may come into our midst seeking aid. I'm not suggesting that any of us stop tithing and honoring God with our firstfruits, but I am suggesting that asking members to "invest" huge portions of their "extra" funds into a "nonessential" new building may not be the wisest thing during a recession that might soon be a depression.
My church has had building plans in the works for at least 2 years now and shows no signs of slowing up...though I'm sure a big enough reduction in contributions may force the Board to put the project on hold. Thing is, there's nothing wrong with the building we currently worship in. It's a fairly large church, though not a megachurch - membership approx. 2,800. It's an old building, but very well maintained and remodeled from time to time. There have been no talks about any structural damage, but the reason we're building is because we've "outgrown" the building. I don't buy it. A more accurate assessment would be that our current building is underutilized.
Is it just me? Couldn't we add to a 3rd Sun. morning service to the two we already hold? Lord knows we've got morrrrrre than enough qualified ministers on staff!!! (So as not to burn out the pastor.) We could add a Sat. evening service...dear Lord, I'd love to do my worshipping on Sat. eve. and truly rest all day Sun.! (When you work in ministry, you learn than your day of worship is hardly a day of rest!) There could be a Sun. evening service as well for those who'd like to sleep in on Sun. morn. There are all kinds of options for increasing use of the building we have instead of forking out several million dollars for a new building. I should add, that the current building is not even half full on Wed. evenings for Bible study. We have a very strong music min., so we get big crowds on Sundays (not to say that the Word isn't good). I dunno, it just seems wasteful to me when I see churches build a new edifice (often to compete with Johnny New Church around the block) and the one they have is closed, vacant and unused for a better part of the week.
Would love to hear the thoughts of some other ministry leaders!?!?!
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 11/17/2008 1:33:34 AM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 675
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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quote:
Is it just me, or does it seem a bit frivolous for a church to launch - or forge ahead with - building a new building during these times? My thinking is that unless your church is literally crumbling and unsafe to worship in, lavish plans for new sanctuaries could and should be put on hold until economic conditions improve.
Why should they wait? I was just telling my wife tonight that because we have been frugal in times of plenty and saved and planned we will be able to do things others won't in times of recession. If your church is ok financially and they have a plan and they have God's go ahead, then what's the problem?
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 11/17/2008 5:32:03 AM
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10SNE1?
Posts: 154
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny
quote:
Is it just me, or does it seem a bit frivolous for a church to launch - or forge ahead with - building a new building during these times? My thinking is that unless your church is literally crumbling and unsafe to worship in, lavish plans for new sanctuaries could and should be put on hold until economic conditions improve.
Why should they wait? I was just telling my wife tonight that because we have been frugal in times of plenty and saved and planned we will be able to do things others won't in times of recession. If your church is ok financially and they have a plan and they have God's go ahead, then what's the problem?
Many of us indeed will be able to do things which others won't in times of recession. The question for all Christians will be "What would God have us do with our excess?" Will it be to "take advantage of the situation" and pile up more toys, take more vacations or build bigger buildings/houses or will it be to use what God has entrusted to us to help others in need?
Yes, it is possible that a church is being lead to build....and the construction people who get the job will be blessed by the work. However, it is also possible that God is asking this congregation to make-do for a season and use what He has entrusted to help the "least of these" who might be just down the street these days.
Respecting leadership does not mean that members blindly follow. There is nothing wrong with respectably expressing concern. And, imo, just because an Elder Board votes to go ahead with a building project it does not follow that God is leading every member to contribute.
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 11/17/2008 11:21:06 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4400
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
Is it just me, or does it seem a bit frivolous for a church to launch - or forge ahead with - building a new building during these times? My thinking is that unless your church is literally crumbling and unsafe to worship in, lavish plans for new sanctuaries could and should be put on hold until economic conditions improve.
Perhaps. If, like you say, there is nothing wrong with the building you have now, I see no reason to forge wildly ahead immediately. But if your church leadership does feel strongly led by God to continue with construction plans, I don't know that there is anything you could do about it.
This does remind me of a post I saw on another board, though. A member of a church in my city--don't know which one--was bragging that his church is building all over the place, even though they are $7 million in debt. In that case, I not only believe that such a church should take a good look at the economy and its own finances, but that such a church is not a good example for stewardship. There are a lot of big churches building like crazy here and I do wonder when I drive by them if it's a good idea.
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 11/17/2008 12:36:42 PM
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APZR
Posts: 954
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From: GA
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If they are financially strong and able.... NOW IS the best time to build. Supplies are cheaper than ever, labor is plentiful, and it could be a great time for churches to expand their out reach.
_____________________________
Ya can't keep trouble from visitin, but you don't have to offer it a chair.
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 11/17/2008 5:13:58 PM
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CarlaJames
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Joined: 5/30/2005
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I agree...my church has just started a capital campaign for a 16 million dollar edition. We have 3 services (adding 2 more in Jan) and are overflowing.
This is a great time to build. During a recession and hard times people who are not churched are looking for a place to gain peace, strengh, and understanding. If you've noticed (i.e. 911) during hard times people flock to churches. This is the perfect time to build bigger! Plus when people see this church growing in numbers and space in such hard times they will know God must have His hand in it. It will glorify Him!
I don't know about you, but....my God is bigger than the dollar bill.
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 11/29/2008 3:08:47 PM
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creationtalk
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My church is building...or remodeling a newly purchased building...or rebuilding from Katrina in another place...however you want to define it. Anyway, we are doing it debt free with the help of volunteers and church members and relief organizations. The goal of the church is to provide a "sanctuary" in the neighborhood where people can come and hang out. I think this is a good time for us to build. For one thing, it gives us a a congregation something to look forward to, and its a strong testimony for our small congregation to be building the church in this way--there have been NO special offerings or anything for the purchase of building materials. It is all coming out of the normal church operating budget.
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 11/29/2008 5:44:01 PM
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his_chosen
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We got burned when our church built a new auditorium. It was designed with all the gee-wizz techno stuff. Leather couches in the lobby. We pledged a certain amount that made sense at the time. Then, we had some unexpected expenses. We tried to keep with what we pledged. I ended up doing the old "let's see, I paid the electric bill last month but not the gas bill, so I better pay the gas bill this month and the electric will have to wait". So we backed off on the pledge payment and the church hounded us until we got caught up. We ended up using a line of credit to get out of that mess. We were not the only ones in the church that ended up in a financial mess due to the church's building project.
Although we haven't been hit too hard during this financial crisis, there is no way we could afford to cut back to contribute to another building project.
Everyone seems to be hit pretty hard right now. Why would a church consider building in such uncertain times?
_____________________________
You have a choice. You can throw in the towel or you can use it to wipe the sweat off your face.
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 12/3/2008 8:29:44 AM
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Tinkerbell_
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From: NeverNeverLand
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Our church goes into all building situations debt free. We paid off our original loan AND raised money for the newest addition. When that was 'paid for' we started building. Once we started building we started raising for the next phase and when that is 'paid for' we'll start on the next one and so forth and so forth.
This way we have it paid for before we even start AND if the recession does catch up with us we aren't left in a hard financial crunch.
_____________________________
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 12/3/2008 10:27:11 AM
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APZR
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From: GA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: his_chosen
We got burned when our church built a new auditorium. It was designed with all the gee-wizz techno stuff. Leather couches in the lobby. We pledged a certain amount that made sense at the time. Then, we had some unexpected expenses. We tried to keep with what we pledged. I ended up doing the old "let's see, I paid the electric bill last month but not the gas bill, so I better pay the gas bill this month and the electric will have to wait". So we backed off on the pledge payment and the church hounded us until we got caught up. We ended up using a line of credit to get out of that mess. We were not the only ones in the church that ended up in a financial mess due to the church's building project.
If you can't keep up with a pledge, let the Church know that your income has just dropped and the original estimate will not be met. Using credit lines to keep up with a pledge is poor stewardship IMHO.
_____________________________
Ya can't keep trouble from visitin, but you don't have to offer it a chair.
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 12/3/2008 2:10:31 PM
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3tulips
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From: sandy shore
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I agree APZR.
I just watched the old movie "The Bishop's Wife" with Cary Grant and Loretta Young. They were discussing this subject. Not building a new church but instead helping out the poor in their community during the lean times.
_____________________________
I opened up the mouth of love and found the wisdom tooth. Larry Norman 1947 - 2008
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 12/5/2008 4:43:16 AM
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helovesme72
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quote:
Many of us indeed will be able to do things which others won't in times of recession. The question for all Christians will be "What would God have us do with our excess?" Will it be to "take advantage of the situation" and pile up more toys, take more vacations or build bigger buildings/houses or will it be to use what God has entrusted to us to help others in need?
MY POINT EXACTLY!!!!!! Just because there is excess doesn't mean that's an automatic cue to build a new building. Too many churches focus on building brick and mortar buildings and neglect to build God's TRUE BUILDING - his people!
Yes, I agree, if the finances are looking good, then it should be ok to consider building, even during a recession. But as another poster suggested, this should be WITHOUT the need to institute all kinds of pledges, drive and other haggling to get members involved. If it's not in the operating budget to build, maybe we need to wait.
Now I didn't wanna throw race into this, but for the sake of my argument, I'm gonna do so. We're an AfrAm church. In a very AA city (ATL). With lots of societal ills in the AA community. And waaaaay too much "spiritual competition" (competitive jealousy, as one preacher puts it) among AA preachers. So I'm appalled at how lavish sanctuaries have taken precedence over true ministry. The millions of dollars sunk into buildings could be used to help curb problems in crime, illiteracy, education, poverty, homelessness, unemployment/underemployment, AIDS/diabetes/cancer/hypertension and some of the other diseases. May we stop overspiritualizing things and understand that the Lord is concerned with ALL of that which concerns us.
But now, I will give my pastor credit. He is NOT one of the money-monger preachers. We lean heavy towards local missions and outreach as well as making significant investments on the youth and education. He has even said that if we had to take from our outreach funds to build, we won't be building. That's what I like to hear.
But I'm still not feeling led to contribute excessively to a building. I like the poster who suggested that God may not be leading EVERY member in the church to help build the building. If we're all giving where God is leading us to give/serve, then all of our contributions should work together for the good. I'm fortifying my home and income to take in foster children. Shucks, I'd like to put a collection plate at my front door...
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 12/10/2008 9:13:08 AM
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coolfamily6
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We were in the midst of building a fitness center when things turned around. I believe that about 70-80% of it was done with cash and we are near the full amount being given. DH and I pledged and gave our amount. Now, God has blessed us and we have been careful with what He has given, we will give more because I know that not everyone can give the original pledges. Some due to selfish "me" spending, others due to job loss etc. which doesn't matter it only matters that we do what God is calling us to do.
Do I think we should have built this center? I voted no but I know that this is where God has called us to worship and I will support the ministery. Yes, there are a lot of bells and whistles in the center: a cafe', showers, a media/computer center etc. It will also be used as a place for the homeless to shower and hopefully in the future get a meal. We have "adopted" the middle school near by and will do after school tutoring in the media room, pickup basketball games and other activities for the teens and we are going to help repaint and repair the school itself because of local budget cuts. This ministry is a direct result of the fitness ctr.
_____________________________
If your bible is a mess; your life won't be.
~Encouragement a mom gave to our children at our First Grader's Bible Ceremony!
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 12/12/2008 3:46:21 PM
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lynnmoon
Posts: 274
Joined: 4/12/2005
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helovesme72, your post here is all the answer to your original question that any of us need to follow really, IMO.
quote:
But I'm still not feeling led to contribute excessively to a building. I like the poster who suggested that God may not be leading EVERY member in the church to help build the building. If we're all giving where God is leading us to give/serve, then all of our contributions should work together for the good.
God calls each of us to be responsible and good stewards of what He has given to us. Despite good spiritual talk, NOBODY knows what God wants you to do with your money other than you and HE. I don't kick in money to support the building of stuff that I don't know that God wants me to support...and don't think that anyone should feel badly about it. If God want's it done, HE'LL MAKE A WAY so I don't stress about that.
Maybe this new building venture is indeed God's will for your congregation, maybe it's not. But either way, it may not be God's will for YOUR MONEY at this point and that's just fine. You pray and offer your financial support to the ventures that you believe that God is directing you toward.
Now, if you really feel like your congregation needs a nudge of some sort about spending in a wrong direction, the only thing that I think might be appropriate (since all the voting and such has been done and passed) would be a well written letter discussing the ministry directions that you feel God is nuding you about. If you've got some specific ideas for ministry to the community that your church should be providing, speak up for sure!!!! They might have the money to do the building AND the other ministry. It's just that nobody has stepped up or has felt called to provide that ministry service. KWIM?
That's my 25 cents! But I do have a somewhat different philosophy about a lot of ministries than some other people. Guilt need never be used to force people to participate. If God is in a thing (whatever the thing), then He is certainly big enough to convict the hearts of enough people to make it so. I hate it when people beg for money to build a larger sanctuary or a gym. Or are constantly pleading for folks to join the "ABC ministry". I think that's bad bsuiness and we do run the risk of encouraging bad stewardship...because we are forcing people or guilting people into things that God hasn't moved them toward in His own time.
Don't beg, just ask your congregation to pray. If not enough people are in support enough to cover the cost THEN that is a good sign that you need to chill out TILL God provides the funds. Like many who posted, my church generally operates debt free. If we don't have money for it now, we don't do it now.
So, when people start harping on the building funds and such, I don't get stressed. If God gives me no urging to be involved, I DON'T and don't stress the failure of the project. God's plan will succeed in God's time.
_____________________________
Lynn
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 12/12/2008 3:51:57 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1414
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
Do I think we should have built this center? I voted no but I know that this is where God has called us to worship and I will support the ministery. Yes, there are a lot of bells and whistles in the center: a cafe', showers, a media/computer center etc.
Our church has a very similar type of facility, which we completed in about 2004 or so....a sports & fitness center....youth sports leagues....and, a cafe....and many other amenities...
you may be a bit "skeptical" now...but, you will be VERY pleased with the results, once your center has been "up and running".....it's been a terrific outreach "tool", as well as opportunity for fellowship. It has blessed our church, and the entire community, tremendously.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? - 12/12/2008 4:13:24 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 2066
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
Do I think we should have built this center? I voted no but I know that this is where God has called us to worship and I will support the ministery. Yes, there are a lot of bells and whistles in the center: a cafe', showers, a media/computer center etc.
Our church has a very similar type of facility, which we completed in about 2004 or so....a sports & fitness center....youth sports leagues....and, a cafe....and many other amenities...
you may be a bit "skeptical" now...but, you will be VERY pleased with the results, once your center has been "up and running".....it's been a terrific outreach "tool", as well as opportunity for fellowship. It has blessed our church, and the entire community, tremendously.
In addition, God is not limited in times of recession or economic chaos. If He leads to build, then He can and will provide.
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