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Help! My husband has found a weird cult - 3/7/2010 4:39:19 AM
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janice71
Posts: 2
Joined: 3/7/2010
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My husband has never had the strength of faith that I have had since I was a troubled teenager and found that the love of Jesus brought me the happiness that I could not the usual teenage things.
My husband is an engineer and he sometimes complains that the Bible is just not logical enough to him to fully convince him. He says he believes in God, but not neccessarily the one like in the Bible and he doesnt believe all of what is written in the Bible. But he is a good man and almost always comes to church with me and we have a good pastor and I thought that maybe over time my husband would find Jesus's love like I did.
But now he is raving about a blog he found that he says is so logical. He says it makes more sense to him than the contradictions of my religion (as he now calls it). I think it is a joke or a cult or something. [link removed by moderator]
I tell him that faith does not need logical arguments and the we can't understand God's ways but he does not agree. I need arguments to convince my husband that this blog is just silly and it's very name tells you all you need to know.
Thank you.
[edited by moderator to remove link/blog name]
< Message edited by Ps103 -- 3/7/2010 12:46:08 PM >
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RE: Help! My husband has found a weird cult - 3/7/2010 7:12:00 AM
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gcsmithjr
Posts: 516
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: online
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quote:
I tell him that faith does not need logical arguments and the we can't understand God's ways but he does not agree.
I don't think this is the right approach to take with your husband (nor do I believe that it is true to say that faith doesn't need logical arguments) - there is abundant evidence in scripture that the Apostle Paul used logic to spread the message of the good news throughout his ministry, particularly in the book of Acts, Romans and in 1 Corinthians and 2 Corinthians.
Just to share some specific examples, Acts 17 tells the story of Paul's travels and, scripture is clear that Paul used "reason" to share the good news:
Acts 17:1-3 When they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that the Christ[a] had to suffer and rise from the dead.
Acts 17:17 "While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there."
It may be true that YOU haven't needed logical arguments to understand God, but it seems that your husband approaches things differently, so you may have to change your approach with him. First of all, you need to understand that you can't force him to believe something, but you should pray for him like crazy and try to let your life be a great witness for him.
Second, there are tons of great logic-based explanations for the message of the Gospel. Depending on what you think would most appeal to your husband you might try reading C.S. Lewis' book Mere Christianity (which is truly a classic) or you might consider into William Lane Craig's book Reasonable Faith.
Rather than trying to buy these books for your husband, it would probably be best if you read them and shared what you're reading/learning with him (while brushing up on the logical underpinnings of the Christian faith).
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RE: Help! My husband has found a weird cult - 3/7/2010 1:08:10 PM
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Ps103
Posts: 12984
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
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Hi Janice.
I went to the blog you mentioned, and it contains plenty of material that violates our TOS in several ways, so please do not link to or mention its name again. Thanks.
That being said, I did not find anything "logical" about the blog. It is one man's attempt to create God in his own image, period. If your husband is truly logical, getting him to see that shouldn't be difficult.
You do not say what kind of engineer your husband is, but I know of no type of engineer that looks at something then decides it is what he wants it to be rather than what it is. That would lead to disaster in real life, wouldn't it? Why would he think re-creating God would even be possible? That isn't logical at all.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Help! My husband has found a weird cult - 3/7/2010 5:21:46 PM
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janice71
Posts: 2
Joined: 3/7/2010
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Thanks so much, guys and sorry for violating the terms of service, I wont do it again.
Janice
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RE: Help! My husband has found a weird cult - 3/9/2010 2:40:50 PM
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Judson50
Posts: 262
Joined: 8/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: janice71
My husband has never had the strength of faith that I have had since I was a troubled teenager and found that the love of Jesus brought me the happiness that I could not the usual teenage things.
My husband is an engineer and he sometimes complains that the Bible is just not logical enough to him to fully convince him. He says he believes in God, but not neccessarily the one like in the Bible and he doesnt believe all of what is written in the Bible. But he is a good man and almost always comes to church with me and we have a good pastor and I thought that maybe over time my husband would find Jesus's love like I did.
But now he is raving about a blog he found that he says is so logical. He says it makes more sense to him than the contradictions of my religion (as he now calls it). I think it is a joke or a cult or something. [link removed by moderator]
I tell him that faith does not need logical arguments and the we can't understand God's ways but he does not agree. I need arguments to convince my husband that this blog is just silly and it's very name tells you all you need to know.
Thank you.
[edited by moderator to remove link/blog name]
First of all I want to say my heart yearns for you and your frustration. He seems to be (based on your statements) an empirical man that needs all 5 senses to be pleased in order to believe. Like Thomas in the Bible.
With that said, he also seems like a man who likes the internet. If you are willing, I run a blog with 3 other men you can find it by CLICKING HERE. It is called Vessels of Mercy (VoM). There is a link for him to "Ask Anything" he desires.
With that said, there are many Biblical sources that show that man will not get everything.
Deuteronomy 29:29
The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.
Isaiah 55:8
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord .
Romans 11:33-36
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!34 For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor ?35 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again ?36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
John 5:39-47
39 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.41 “I do not receive glory from men;42 but I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves.43 “I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him.44 “How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?45 “Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.46 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.47 “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
I want to encourage you with this, you can't "convince" him to believe in Jesus. Even the Apostles of the day couldn't convince the "Intellectual elites" in those days. That is NOT your job. Your job is to present the Gospel, it is the role of God to convict and transform a heart. Have faith that God's choice is righteous even if you yourself do not understand it.
_____________________________
Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy Proverbs 27:6
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RE: Help! My husband has found a weird cult - 3/9/2010 3:14:31 PM
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Credo_ut_Intelligam
Posts: 83
Joined: 3/8/2008
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The primary concern for me would be to press the gospel message itself. Does your husband truly understand the Christian worldview: who are people (humanity)? Does humanity have a "problem"? If so, what is the solution? What does your husband personally think and what does this "cult" think about these issues?
If he wants to use logic as an excuse to avoid the gospel then I would face that challenge head on, but this can be difficult if you've have never prepared yourself to know why (and what) you believe. But beyond that the only thing I think we (or I) could help you with is to point out some resources that be helpful.
So you may want to direct him to other resources that address the topics he is concerned with. Some recent popular, general, and brief material you may consider (I would suggest reading them yourself first to see if they are actually appropriate to his specific needs) are: Letter from a Christian Citizen by Douglas Wilson, The Making of an Atheist by James Spiegel (read in conjunction with I Told Me So: Self-Deception and the Christian Life by Gregg Ten Elshof), A Reasonable God: Engaging the New Face of Atheism by Gregory Ganssle. Of course the classics like Mere Christianity are always good too. (Of course, these works are directed against atheism, and you say your husband believes in God, but nonetheless these books attempt to answer common objections to Christian theism and give an overview of how Christianity approaches reason and theology. Maybe if you specify exactly what it is in Christianity that your husband finds illogical we can recommend some resources geared specifically towards that.)
You mentioned that your husband is logical, being an engineer, but often times it is the case that those trained to be logical in mathematics or concrete sciences are very bad at applying this to more abstract issues that philosophy and religion deal with. But, if your husband is not one of these persons, I would suggest you introduce him to Alvin Plantinga's Warrant trilogy: Warrant the Current Debate, Warrant and Proper Function, and Warranted Christian Belief. Also, God and Other minds by Plantinga is good. I'm guessing from what you've said that something more specific to your husband's needs would be James Anderson's book Paradox in Christian Theology: An Analysis of its Presence, Character, and Epistemic Status. But if he has no background knowledge of epistemology then this book may not due him any good. If that's the case then he should probably start with Esther Meek's Longing to Know and from there move to Anderson and/or Plantinga.
And if your husband is willing to do research into this other religion, then he should also be willing to do research into the Christian religion. Has your husband studied Christian Philosophical Theology? He may also be interested in God and the Ethics of Belief and the two volumes of Oxford Readings in Philosophical Theology.
< Message edited by Credo_ut_Intelligam -- 3/9/2010 3:26:46 PM >
_____________________________
"My whole hope is in thy exceeding great mercy--and that alone. Give what thou commandest and command what thou wilt." - Augustine
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