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The Great Whore - 11/20/2008 1:59:57 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 1232
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: God is with you, never forget that <3
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I feel like the other day something occurred to me that brings some clarity concerning the endtimes and specifically the Great Whore spoken of in Revelation. I am still turning things over in the back of my mind about much of it, so I"m not like dug in about what I'm about to say. It was just an interesting thing that came to mind suddenly when I was pondering some things I have recently witnessed in the church as a whole.
For so long many people have labeled the Catholic Church as the end time woman riding on the back of the beast. But I don't think it is any one denomination (in light of recent observations over the past several years)... I think it is more an attitude, a cultural mindset, an emerging political correctness that is permeating the church as a whole across denominational lines and generations and races and nations.
The sin of the Pharisee, the sin of the Catholic church during the middle ages, the sin of the emerging church today as we approach the end times... I am convinced goes back to the day when Israel demanded a king. The people of God began looking to a man, rather than God. Leaders began to think of themselves as equal to God, carrying the same weight, answering to no one, above justice and all that is stated in Scripture as the will of God. As though they are allowed to reinterpret the word of God, and that all must obey whatever they say as though they are God.
I know this sounds so farfetched and as though it is fanatical ramblings... but there are many people of late who have been disillusioned by the current trends of church culture that seems to put more emphasis on the whims of it's leaders/pastors than the Word of God. There is a strong trend that is emerging across mainline denominations that is discounting the Bible as being untrustworthy. I have witnessed a generation of teen to thirty somethings that have emphasized accountability to a peer group or a leader/mentor above personal accountability to God.
Consider David's confession in Psalm 51:
1 Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion
blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash away all my iniquity
and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is always before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight,
so that you are proved right when you speak
and justified when you judge.
The church has moved the heart of the people away from a one to one relationship with Jesus Christ to a relationship based on go-betweens as though those go-betweens are equal to God.
Behold the Great Whore.
Priests and nuns and mentors and friends and pastors and leaders and teachers are all part of the body that ministers to one another. They are appointed by God and essential to the health of the church. BUT...
and here is what muddy's the water. There is a distinct and clear line that she must not cross. When suddenly people become dependent on the approval of their leaders for their salvation, for the big and the small in their lives, for direction and self-esteem and permission to function as part of the church as a whole... when they're banned from ministry or black-balled socially based on the personal preferences of a leader or leadership rather than based upon Scriptural guidelines... their God has become something other than the one true God.
The knowledge of good and evil, the ability to determine what is right and wrong, to judge what is allowed and not allowed, the power to be obeyed as to what people can and cannot do --- the sin in the garden was an attempt to become like God, thru means that were not God's means. This is nothing new. It's all very basic sin.
And it is a sin that is not just that of the leaders... it is more the sin of the people, the congregation, you and me, everyone that goes along with whatever the leadership says without measuring it to the Word of God and calling into question anything that reveals itself as contrary to it. At least ask a question about it. We have prostituted ourself out as the church because we have put men in the position of our god while we claim to be married to the One True God. That is the church that is emerging in these last days.
It's being taught in my church and so many don't know. And it's probably being taught in your church somewhere under the radar, with teachings by Claiborne and other thinkers that hate the christian foundations that our nation is built upon. The movement is called NEO-MONASTICISM and it is the fruit on the tree... tempting, edgy, new and different, making promises of greatness and holiness and passions, and it's being offered to the church as a whole.
People that fast devoutly, that have every appearance of holiness, that deprive themselves of certain worldly pleasures, who are lofty in their own minds, frustrated and cynical about those who don't put on a similar show, critical of those who fail to speak often of humility and their passion for everyone to have all things in common. Such people trade one sin for another and mask their error with self righteousness and false-humility... deceiving others as well as themselves (because they are addicted to FEELING holy rather than being like Christ).
27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. (Matt 23)
The great revival and the great falling away.
The true church is being ousted by the emerging church that has become the organized church.
Labels of Church and Christian are merely that... labels, cheap knock offs looking for customers, offered to hook the soul of the very elect.
Christ and his teachings and the Word of God are the defining factor. Those who teach any other gospel, and there are many, soooo many more than you realize across denominational lines. They are redefining the church just like so many new voices in our nation and among the leaders of the world are redefining so many things. The last days are upon us, the birth pains have become regular with only minutes between. The sorting has begun between sheep and goats and every single person must account for themselves, there are no excuses, lines are drawn and sides must be chosen. Whose side will you stand on? What will you call yourself? Which label will you wear and who is really the God that rules over that label?
The Great Whore is married to the one of righteousness, part of the church, called by his name, Christian... but she sleeps with and gives herself to another as well. Submitting to both, full of adulteries of the flesh of the heart and of the spirit. A large portion of the church is whoring herself out by not holding her leaders accountable when they demean or deter from the Word of the Almighty God as recorded in the Bible.
There is a place for right authority, for obeying our leadership, as with the early church... but EVERYTHING leadership said or did was measured to what Christ said and taught. The emerging church has moved away from that simple command and model. The Pharisee, the Catholic Church at a certain point in history, the modern day church (insert every denomination on the books), the end time church/bride of Christ -- each contained a portion that worshiped a man as though he was God.
Many will disagree with this... good. Hopefully it will mean that they are actually trying to THINK about what is real around them and what is not real according the the Bible. To question, to measure, to weigh... that is the freedom that Christ brings. When men sincerely begin to seek Truth... it will lead them to Christ every time. It is that Truth that sets us free to begin with.
so yeah, just thinking out loud about some things I've observed recently.
_____________________________
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RE: The Great Whore - 11/20/2008 2:21:48 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Wow selahgirl...that will take some time to digest before responding but I do think the primary thrust of you thinking is correct.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: The Great Whore - 11/20/2008 4:44:51 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
Joined: 10/20/2008
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Hi Selahgirl and thanks for your thoughts here.
I always saw the whore system as anything man made and paraded it as God. Whether that was an Idol, or an Ideal or principle belief system that wasn't of God, but was paraded as if it was, or instead of. So that is very interesting to me.
In line with what you say; I remember a lot of years ago (I think around 1997ish) I was concerned because I'd just read a Christian book that was going on about positive confession and prosperity preaching. It was all pretty new thinking then, and I didn't like the spirit behind it. The feeling it gave me at the time was very self seeking. Twisting the sayings of Christ, to serve self. Also in this book (i can't remember now who's it was) they were taking scripture out of context by getting the reader to believe that because we are in Christ, and so part of Him, we were gods ourselves, and was getting the reader to say out loud 'I am god'!
It really upset me, as I knew in my heart that this was a proud, arrogant and self seeking twist on the true message behind the scriptures it was focusing on.
I decided to inform my pastor because I knew that quite a few in his congregation had read this book, I myself was handed it to read by a lovely lady that had just read it and said I must read it because it was wonderful. I had a conversation with the pastor about all I'd read and the scriptures that had been twisted. He thanked me for revealing it to him and said he would deal with it.
A couple of weeks went by and then, during his sermon this particular week he mentioned prosperity preaching and taught on positive confession. 'NOT' as a warning, 'he taught it'!
Myself and my wife were so shocked that we went to him after and asked him what was going on. All he said was that this new teaching was very popular and he has always liked that teacher.
Now I know there is still a lot of split views on this type of preaching. I know what I feel about it personally. But it does show-up what you mean. That new teachings are being followed without questioning whether or not it truly is Scripture based and stearing us away from the original Gospel.
Blessings,
Sonic
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The Great Whore - 11/27/2008 12:35:37 AM
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LBolt
Posts: 997
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
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I highly suspect, based on a study on "day of the LORD"...when I look up all those nations mentioned in the prophets, the very same countries are dominated by radical Islamist seeking to snatch the land of Israel through inhumane despicable acts. The are the only one's seeking to convert people through the threat of death today and beheading. They have openly expressed hatred for Jew and Christians. I lean toward Islam being the "whore" specifically spoken of, however Sonic said this earlier any man-made religion that denies that Yahshua is Elohim manifested in the flesh is a antichrist spirit. I intend to expound on this later.
We are in the the time of Jacob's trouble!
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: The Great Whore - 11/27/2008 1:01:43 AM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Hi Lbolt...
quote:
We are in the the time of Jacob's trouble!
Question is not Jacob's trouble when Michael the archangel stand up and allows persecution of Israel at the mid point of the last week? The other reading is Michael will stand up to offer protection to Israel towards the end of the week. Regardless the time that Michael stands up is towards the end of the last week in my opinion.
Still there are others that say Michael stands up to allow the man of sin to come into power spoken of in 2 Th 2:6
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: The Great Whore - 11/27/2008 2:08:36 AM
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Josh4LinC
Posts: 115
Joined: 11/11/2008
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
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You know, I used to have a book that was written by Walter Martin. I think it was called The Kingdom of the Cults or something. In there, he documented a lot of comments by so called men of faith on TBN calling themselves gods. These statements had been made way back during the '80s and even earlier. Plus, don't the LDS also believe that they will one day be gods and rule their own universes? Even some popes long ago declared themselves as Jesus in the flesh or whatever (that's not to accuse all popes since, but there were definitely a couple). I think these ideas have been around for a long while, now. In fact, come to think of it, these are the very same ideas that got Lucifer the boot from Heaven.
I do agree that it will probably become more prevalent as the end times draw closer, but I just wanted to express that these ideas are nothing new.
_____________________________
In Christ Jesus,
Josh
“Well,” says one, “I like to be my own master.” Yes, and that involves two things;
first, you have a very bad master; and, next, your master has a fool for his servant.
- Charles Spurgeon
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