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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/16/2010 3:41:34 AM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7
And, what was the cry of the people?
In the case of Sh'mu'el, they were calling for an earthly king, which was not Adonia's way. The principle is that those who reject Adonai's ways are rejecting Him and not me.
Granted.
But my point was the "these things must needs be" meaning concession on the part of HaShem till judgment day.
That was not clear to me so I took my best shot. Yes, there will always be those who reject Adonai's ways, even in Adonai's kingdom, presuming you hold to a literal millenial kingdom. However, acknowledging that such people will exist does not relieve us of the responsibility of holding those who take the other way accountable, as long as they choose to associate with the community of Adonai. As the Scriptures say, (Num. 15:29)
"One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether he is a native-born Israelite or an alien." I am sure you are aware of this, however, for any lurkers let me make clear I view the word sin here as that which is less than Adonai's perfect will and not as something that causes one to lose His salvation.
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"Show me wherein I have erred and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/16/2010 2:49:53 PM
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Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ariella...
Welcome newbies. 
Thank you.
Yes Thank you...
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Devarim (Deuteronomy) 6:4-9
Vaiyikra (Leviticus) 19:18
Beresheet (Genesis) 12:1-3, 15:4-6, 15:18-21, 17:1-27, 25:21-26
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 28
Tehillim (Psalms) 137
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/26/2010 11:40:27 AM
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Eutychus
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I understand this is not a debate thread and I only ask the following to sincerely learn the answer, since I don't recall any of you posting in the debate thread on this topic:
Is there a consistent Messianic position on eternal security (Perseverance of the Saints, OSAS, or however you prefer to call it)? IOW, if someone is saved by grace through faith and indwelt by God the Holy Spirit, is there a possibility of them spending eternity separated from God in the Lake of Fire?
Thanks,
Euty
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/26/2010 7:01:08 PM
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Lapidoth
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Most of the ones I know carry the baggage from their
previous associations along with them.
Someone more knowledgeable about the position you
enquire about will have to answer.
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BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/26/2010 8:15:26 PM
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Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I understand this is not a debate thread and I only ask the following to sincerely learn the answer, since I don't recall any of you posting in the debate thread on this topic:
Is there a consistent Messianic position on eternal security (Perseverance of the Saints, OSAS, or however you prefer to call it)? IOW, if someone is saved by grace through faith and indwelt by God the Holy Spirit, is there a possibility of them spending eternity separated from God in the Lake of Fire?
Thanks,
Euty
While I do not claim to be the most knowledgeable I can confirm what Lapidoth has told you.
Most come to the Messianic Jewish Movement with theological baggage from the denominations they were a part of...
As such there isn't a clear consensus.
the only scripture which seems to answer your question comes from Hebrews 10:24-29
24 And let us keep paying attention to one another, in order to spur each other on to love and good deeds, 25 not neglecting our own congregational meetings, as some have made a practice of doing, but, rather, encouraging each other. And let us do this all the more as you see the Day approaching. 26 For if we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but only the terrifying prospect of Judgment, of raging fire that will consume the enemies. 28 Someone who disregards the Torah of Moshe is put to death without mercy on the word of two or three witnesses. 29 Think how much worse will be the punishment deserved by someone who has trampled underfoot the Son of God; who has treated as something common the blood of the covenant which made him holy; and who has insulted the Spirit, giver of God's grace!
I will not comment.
_____________________________
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 6:4-9
Vaiyikra (Leviticus) 19:18
Beresheet (Genesis) 12:1-3, 15:4-6, 15:18-21, 17:1-27, 25:21-26
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 28
Tehillim (Psalms) 137
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/27/2010 12:18:12 AM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2719
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I understand this is not a debate thread and I only ask the following to sincerely learn the answer, since I don't recall any of you posting in the debate thread on this topic:
Is there a consistent Messianic position on eternal security (Perseverance of the Saints, OSAS, or however you prefer to call it)? IOW, if someone is saved by grace through faith and indwelt by God the Holy Spirit, is there a possibility of them spending eternity separated from God in the Lake of Fire?
Thanks,
Euty
The context of your question asks more than one question, not just eternal security, but also the nature of the after life for the unsaved. You also presume messianics to be comparable to catholics, presbretyrians, etc. There is not a messianic doctrinal statement that I know of. There have been attempts by some to denominationalize the messianic movement. However, there has been little "progress" in those efforts.
One thing I see that is common among most of those who choose to refer to themselves as messianic is the primacy of the individual conscience, subject to the Scriptures, in spiritual matters and the primacy of community standards, again subject to the Scriptures, in social matters. These two are tendendencies and not mutually exclusive. In fact, they are constantly being challenged by one another. This tension is, in my opinion, at the heart of the mindset of this movement. There is an understanding that no man has a perfect understanding of Adonai and His ways, and it is only through community interaction, guided by the Scriptures, that one comes to a clearer understanding of who Adonai is and what He requires of us. Agian this is a symbiotic relationship. The Scriptures guide community interaction and community interaction sharpens one's understanding of the Scriptures. Therefore, I would propose that it is this symbiosis that defines the messianic communities and not doctrinal statements, unlike most "christian churches". I am talking about the mechanics of worship and not the source or culmination of our identities. That of course is Adonai Yeshua HaMeshiach.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 2/27/2010 12:24:39 AM >
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"Show me wherein I have erred and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 3/1/2010 9:57:41 AM
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Eutychus
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Thank you for each of your responses! I sincerely appreciate them.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 3/1/2010 12:20:15 PM
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Saltlight_2188
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I did notice it...so bright and beautiful! If I'm going to do a seder, I need to start planning for it now. Lamb is hard to find here.
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Lisa Lisa
Mercy triumphs over judgment
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 3/1/2010 3:30:25 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 9221
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Saltlight_2188
I did notice it...so bright and beautiful! If I'm going to do a seder, I need to start planning for it now. Lamb is hard to find here.
I see it a lot in Sam's Club and Winn Dixie in Dothan. I've even seen ground lamb in W/D.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 3/1/2010 6:40:42 PM
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Saltlight_2188
Posts: 1953
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Thanks, Euty...I'll have to check out Sam's Club!
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Lisa Lisa
Mercy triumphs over judgment
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 3/1/2010 8:17:00 PM
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Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Saltlight_2188
I did notice it...so bright and beautiful! If I'm going to do a seder, I need to start planning for it now. Lamb is hard to find here.
correct me if I'm wrong but isn't lamb only done traditionally on Pesakh IN Israel?
_____________________________
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 6:4-9
Vaiyikra (Leviticus) 19:18
Beresheet (Genesis) 12:1-3, 15:4-6, 15:18-21, 17:1-27, 25:21-26
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 28
Tehillim (Psalms) 137
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 3/2/2010 3:22:55 AM
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Bluethread
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Since we can not do a proper sacrifice and the seder plate is rabbinic, a lamb shank is not necessary. It's good to have, but not a deal braker. By the way, what do all of you think of the rabbinic elements on the seder plate. We leave out the egg, it does make much sense to us.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have erred and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 3/5/2010 1:02:19 PM
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Tefillah
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I don't know if any of you are interested, but there are a bunch of Messianic bloggers who are reading and discussing a specific Jewish book each month. We've dubbed it J-BOM -- Jewish Book of the Month Club.
In preparation for Passover, the book we are reading this month is The JPS Commentary on the Haggadah.
Here's a link to my blog for more information, and for a list of bloggers involved.
Please note: We welcome all participation, keeping in mind that this is a discussion group.
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Wanda Shepherd
Literally Messianic Blog
In Search of Manna Blog
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 3/5/2010 4:07:51 PM
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Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tefillah
I don't know if any of you are interested, but there are a bunch of Messianic bloggers who are reading and discussing a specific Jewish book each month. We've dubbed it J-BOM -- Jewish Book of the Month Club.
In preparation for Passover, the book we are reading this month is The JPS Commentary on the Haggadah.
Here's a link to my blog for more information, and for a list of bloggers involved.
Please note: We welcome all participation, keeping in mind that this is a discussion group.
Thanks for the info... i JUST may take you up on that.
_____________________________
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 6:4-9
Vaiyikra (Leviticus) 19:18
Beresheet (Genesis) 12:1-3, 15:4-6, 15:18-21, 17:1-27, 25:21-26
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 28
Tehillim (Psalms) 137
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 3/9/2010 1:04:05 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 4125
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
correct me if I'm wrong but isn't lamb only done traditionally on Pesakh IN Israel? Some Sephardic traditions use lamb. It is forbidden in Ashkenazic Judaism.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 3/9/2010 2:43:28 PM
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Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
correct me if I'm wrong but isn't lamb only done traditionally on Pesakh IN Israel? Some Sephardic traditions use lamb. It is forbidden in Ashkenazic Judaism.
Todah khah'vehr. (thanks friend)
_____________________________
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 6:4-9
Vaiyikra (Leviticus) 19:18
Beresheet (Genesis) 12:1-3, 15:4-6, 15:18-21, 17:1-27, 25:21-26
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 28
Tehillim (Psalms) 137
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I'm especially excited since this year we'll be meeting my parents in Dallas to attend a congregational seder. 
