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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/26/2008 8:44:05 AM
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kingdust
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
But we know the truth, and are supposed to tell everyone the truth. We are not supposed to let everyone else go on living a lie. Right?
We need and are told to spread the gospel. Sometimes we go about it in the wrong way, but we are emotional also, and emotions do flare up in certain situations.
A lot times that emotion seems to be driven by 'my stealth pride' in my sure conviction of what I 'think' or 'believe' to be right.
No one on the right calls it self-righteous anger but, nonetheless, it might be, just because the half of any 'self' belongs to the wrong side, if a person is consisted of old and new nature, and the rest could only be right according to the self-weight, scale and reader-interpreter.
If I think, believe I am right but accused of being wrong, I have all the right to be indignant, self right holy anger that is.
Think about the anger of Cain...
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ORIGINAL: kingdust
We as Christians all say that we know the truth, but do we really know the truth?
Isn't it proper to say, 'we believe the Bible to be true'?
If the bible is true, then we know the truth. If the bible is absolute truth, then we know the absolute truth. I don't see your point.
I said that, thinking of 'private interpretation', which no subjective and relative thinker can be free from.
Could you really say that you really know the whole truth?
Y'know, the Bible contains the past, present and the future of the universe, just too big for our bird brain to even scratch the surface of it.
Basically, we are dealing with God who is bigger than the whole universe!
Now, if you claim that your belief in the Bible is absolutely true, what about others in the same faith who disagree with you?
Whose interpretation can be the final arbitration?
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ORIGINAL: kingdust
Even if the Bible is true absolutely, we as the relative being cannot declare what 'I' believe is absolutely true.
Guess what we do, if we do that?
No less than what Buddhist do- finding own right way.
I disagree with that
I meant to put a strong stress on 'I', but I don't think I did effective enough.
What 'I' believe was meant to point out to the subjective belief in the subjective truth derived from the private interpretations.
How would you put yourself in God's shoe in order to have the objective view?
Can it be possible at all?
If all you have is what you think and believe to be true and right, your way of seeking truth is no different from the Buddhist who does basically the same thing- seeking what is right in 'my' eyes subjectively.
How can you tell them what you do is different from them?
Who on earth can say that?
quote:
This I agree with, and eaglesfeather is a Christian, so I didn't really think about it. Of course we should be more tactful talking to someone of a different religion about the bible, God, and Jesus. It would come off as disrespectful if we blatantly say we know the truth and they follow lies from satan. I wouldn't do that. But thanks for the heads up, and the advice.
Yes, I agree also.
Yes, we have 'the sword of the absolute truth' to cut deep into the bone of people of nonsense, Buddhist and other religions, even in the same faith with different views, but when we wield the sword, we can easily become murderers, instead of saviors, only because it is in the hand of non-absolute being like us, unqualified to dance with the sword which meant to kill the very sword wielder him/herself.
The Crusade was the good example.
Peter being called 'Satan' was another.
If Peter could be such, we the ordinary are more than capable.
How can I say I am not a murderer, killing people with my sword of absolute belief in my absolute conviction, even killing God with my subjective but absolute sword of conviction, thinking doing service to HIM?
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I am an English as Second Language person and love corrections, kind or unkind, positive or negative, with love or without love, which I am grateful of. Just GIVE!
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/26/2008 10:40:23 AM
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eaglesfeather
Posts: 193
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From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisovery
and buddha made those goals for them to set their high standings on right. so they worship what the man was about and want to be like him. hmm that sounds an awful lot like i want to be like christ and i worship him. sounds alot like a worshipping session to me. they look to buddha and his life to set their own lives on. yea sounds alot like worship.
Well, Siddhârtha Gautama seemed to have simply brought out some facts about humanity and 'the human condition' that had not been addressed before. Christ would teach us many of the same principles 500 years later. Receiving knowledge from someone does not make them your god or as Christians we could never allow our children into any modern school.
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/26/2008 10:46:25 AM
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eaglesfeather
Posts: 193
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To the sub-topic of what were the options in India during that time I continue to think about it and out of general interest I will study more.
I keep thinking about my previous studies in the old testament. I can't imagine any way India could have been welcome to practice Judaism. Just imagine what they would hear about Israel from the surrounding countries. I think for their own lives they would have avoided it..
I could be wrong though so I appreciate any info.
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/26/2008 1:12:00 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 8874
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
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One of the biggest issues with Buddhism is that there is no outside god or ultimate reality and that the ultimate goal is to cease to exhist in the physical sense and just become part of the "force"
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L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/26/2008 1:13:56 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1212
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quote:
ORIGINAL: eaglesfeather
To the sub-topic of what were the options in India during that time I continue to think about it and out of general interest I will study more.
I keep thinking about my previous studies in the old testament. I can't imagine any way India could have been welcome to practice Judaism. Just imagine what they would hear about Israel from the surrounding countries. I think for their own lives they would have avoided it..
I could be wrong though so I appreciate any info.
We all share a common ancestry, do we not?
In the beginning...
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/26/2008 1:35:10 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kingdust
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
Oh, but Chrisitians are just so much worse....they don't have all that Buddhist peace and stuff. WELL I GUESS NOT!!!! I MEAN THE DEVIL ALREADY HAS THE BUDDHISTS...WHY WOULD HE BOTHER THEM??? Yup, let's just leave them in their peaceful non-existance and go bother the Christians until they decide to join the peaceful Buddhists.
Ay yi yi....what a myth 
Knowing good and evil, true and false, right and wrong, holiness and sin, we can't settle down in peace that easy. It is a mind boggling fact that we have both in our life.
If only we can forget all about them and become thoughtless, emotionless, desire-less, will-less- basically emptiness, we surely can have peace, that is, 'false peace', because our belief in self thought cannot override the reality, nor can create a reality we DESIRED against the true reality here on earth or beyond, which in Buddhism is a subject to get rid of in order to have the 'empty peace'.
How can you create a reality when you have no desire to do so, even if that is possible?
Yes, it is possible only in DECEPTION which we acknowledge but not really perceive, because we are the very creator of deception, simply because we can say 'let there be' according to my thought, but nothing happens the way I want it to be, so, we just settle with believing own thought with the reality of it unknown.
If we deal with the Christianity 'subjectively', we are no different from the Buddhist.
It is just another religion, man dealing with God, gods, or no god as a subject in man's hand, just like those idol makers mentioned in the Book of Isaiah.
I have absolutely no idea what you are responding to in what I wrote or if you are responding to what I wrote. It appears you may be as you are quoting me...........but you don't seem to address what I wrote......so, 
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/26/2008 1:36:28 PM
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solarflare
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PS Eaglesfeather......you said you would address what I wrote but you never did...........why is that?
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/26/2008 9:06:55 PM
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eaglesfeather
Posts: 193
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Sorry solarflare. Here's my very late reply.
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
1) Buddhism is the most culturally popular belief system in the West (remembering it did not originate here of course) It has been assimilated into many universities and Hollywood. In the US, it has grown 2.000% since the 70's.
I agree and I can only imagine continued growth with Buddhism and other religion/philosophy trends in the west. But, I think for more than 2000 years Buddhism has been customized and religionized to meet the desires of those practicing it. I believe the core philosophies are so few and simple, but we know what humanity does with everything...
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3) Buddhism IS THE FOUNDATION FOR MOST NEW AGE MYSTICS.
Why is it so popular? As the originator of this thread stated, it can be absorbed in a package suitable to the one interested in it. That, is because Buddhists do NOT believe in god or gods. They have no idols except possibly a Budda. They view humans as the only center....very appealing to many no doubt.....AND because of this, this "religion' is more likely to attract intellectuals and philosophers.
Very true and I do see many intellectuals and philosophers looking into Buddhism now. The funny thing is that studying Buddhism from the outside can provide endless learning and intellectual stimulation, but from the inside it seems much simpler. For instance, I don't think you will ever engage in debate with a buddhist that has achieved the goals of the practice. They do a good job of escaping from all of the human agendas and popularity values of the world.
During the past few nights I've read a lot of writtings of the Buddhist 'masters'
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Bottom line: NO ABSOLUTES, as Budda said on his deathbed. "Find your own way." Hmmm...sounds like we are all gods....oh wait, that's New Age.
Unfortunately, Buddhism devalues individuals because it sees them as part of a divine whole. Not god, but everyone, "a" divine 'whole'.
I understand what you're saying, but I think that's a conclusion that some people made by his preaching of selflessness. Losing what keeps us apart (ego, etc.)
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For 200 hundred years after his death, followers of Buddhism were basically unified in their beliefs. Around the 3rd C. BC a major question arose which centered around the thought that perhaps an individual who has reached 'enlightenment' is able to guide others towards the goal....
The Buddhist community was split in two over this.
This split resulted in more factions and continues progressively in this manner today......accounting for the myriad possibilities and repackaging of same, to appeal to Western culture. Buddhism is difficult to summarize and very complex for the above reasons and for the constant repackaging....much like New Age, which again, derives its roots from this religion.
Today there are 5 main branches of Buddhism and many interpretations within each group. The Buddhism led by the Dalai Lama, popular on this continent, emphasizes gaining power and control. It is inconsistent and illogical to believe that every person picks and chooses his or her own truth. Yet, it is exactly this inconsistency that is embraced by Buddhism.
Buddhists seek the illogical and the contradictory BECAUSE they regard logic and reason as prisons from which the mind must be released.
The biggest contradiction in the Buddhist world view is simply this: If all truth is based on experience and personal interpretation, and, if all authority is personal, why would each sect claim to be more valid than the others?
The interesting things about the known history of Buddhism is its similiarity to the history of the Christian church. Several councils and the denominations now debating on what is true and who is more traditional. There is one denomination that says they trump all the others because they were at the first council. Sound familiar?
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Well, as we know, and as CHRISTIANITY teaches, TRUTH IS NOT subjective . God has disclosed universal TRUTH in the divinely inspired Scriptures of the Bible and through His Son JESUS THE CHRIST.
The Buddhist doctrine of reincarnation lends itself to certain NA teachings, past-life regression, spirit teachers and energy focus (shakra) The Bible clearly stipulates that people die but once and are then judged (Heb. 9:27).
How do we know our scriptures are true? What can I tell a Buddhist to convince him of this?
I personally know, but how can I do this intellectually? Should I use a self-justifying tactic by using the bible?
Ahhh, reincarnation. Yes, this bothers me and I can't help thinking that the Buddhists that believe in that were avoiding the truth of God and they were finding possible logical paths our souls take after death. This may sound funny, but reincarnation is my biggest problem with Buddhism. I think other regional beliefs inspired that. Maybe...
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BUDDHISM:
1. Nothing is permanent
2. You do not really exist
3. Karma, good or bad, determines whether you reincarnate up or down the chain
4. Once you truly deny your own existence (desire), you extinguish the flame of life. You then reach
5. Nirvana and simply cease to be
Where are Buddhists going? In their OWN words, "Nowhere. I don't exist."
Ok, on the topic of existence you have either done very extensive study that resulted in a philosophical opinion of this or maybe misunderstand their belief on existence. Or, maybe I know much less than I think which is usually the case anyways.
I think the "I" when talking about existence is a place we put ourselves. Like the gap between 'I want' and 'I have' being a place of suffering. They don't want to spiritually exist there. To be honest, I've enjoyed learning everything in recent days. I've even talked to some Buddhists, but I was surprised how little they knew about it. One thing I believe we could benefit from in Christianity is focusing on the problems related to the ego.
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/26/2008 11:09:28 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
The interesting things about the known history of Buddhism is its similiarity to the history of the Christian church. Several councils and the denominations now debating on what is true and who is more traditional. There is one denomination that says they trump all the others because they were at the first council. Sound familiar?
I haven't been at any councils, but I do have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and His Father is my Father. There are no denominations in heaven. And none in my heart. Truth is not a denomination.
quote:
How do we know our scriptures are true? What can I tell a Buddhist to convince him of this?
I personally know, but how can I do this intellectually? Should I use a self-justifying tactic by using the bible?
Christianity is the only 'religion' in the world that does not ask its followers to find their own way to heaven through good deeds or penance or balancing 'scales'. It is the only religion where the God it says it believes in, has Himself made a way for the human race to come to Him. Now, that is a God. No, that IS God. Humbling Himself to take on human form and die with our sins upon Him. That, is not intellectual. God's thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways. Transcendal enough for you?
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I think the "I" when talking about existence is a place we put ourselves. Like the gap between 'I want' and 'I have' being a place of suffering. They don't want to spiritually exist there. To be honest, I've enjoyed learning everything in recent days. I've even talked to some Buddhists, but I was surprised how little they knew about it. One thing I believe we could benefit from in Christianity is focusing on the problems related to the ego.
I do not misunderstand their belief. I don't want to spiritually exist here either, but I do. However, God's word tells me that my suffering is brief compared to eternity. And my suffering is nothing compared to Christ's.
The worst struggles are the internal ones...the uncertanties...the if onlys, what ifs...and if I could justs...suffering.....you die once. Their belief is that they keep coming back and so they try to live in a manner to improve their lot in the next life.
Here, is a post in response to another post of yours:
quote:
quote:
How does Buddhism deal with sin? From my understanding they admit that they can't decide with certainty and use tested methods of remaining mindful, but you will beyond a resonable doubt see less sinful acts in a Buddhist community than a Christian one (even by the Christian definition). your quote,
my response:
I just couldn't pass this one up.
Ahem: Let's see. You will 'see' less sin in a Buddhist community than a Christian one. What is the worst sin? You know, the one that will buy you a ticket to Hades, Hell and the hotplace? Could it be the denial of THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE IN WHOM WE LIVE AND BREATH AND HAVE OUR BEING? Oh, but Chrisitians are just so much worse....they don't have all that Buddhist peace and stuff. WELL I GUESS NOT!!!! I MEAN THE DEVIL ALREADY HAS THE BUDDHISTS...WHY WOULD HE BOTHER THEM??? Yup, let's just leave them in their peaceful non-existance and go bother the Christians until they decide to join the peaceful Buddhists.
Ay yi yi....what a myth
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/27/2008 4:55:40 AM
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kingdust
Posts: 296
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
I have absolutely no idea what you are responding to in what I wrote or if you are responding to what I wrote. It appears you may be as you are quoting me...........but you don't seem to address what I wrote......so,
I understand your frustration, but be patient with me a little more so that I can redo my writing to make sense to you.
I was thinking about the Christian peace a little different from what you were talking about.
I wanted to point out that Christian peace is not that easy to come by because we know both good and evil.
If you a good person, you probably have not committed a big sin that weigh you down like a heavy burden which can make you loose sleep or peace whenever you are reminded of it.
If you are righteous person, knowing what the right thing is and doing the right thing, you would probably have trouble with those who are unrighteous, doing the unspeakable things which might bother you and easily drive peace out of you.
On the other hand, Buddhists don't acknowledge sin, or right or wrong, like we do, they can easily acquire peace by just ignoring or forgetting about it. They know how to empty those thoughts out.
That is what meditation is all about- erase those bad thoughts from your mind and enjoy peace, free from those bad thoughts!
_____________________________
I am an English as Second Language person and love corrections, kind or unkind, positive or negative, with love or without love, which I am grateful of. Just GIVE!
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/27/2008 9:15:30 AM
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eaglesfeather
Posts: 193
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
I haven't been at any councils, but I do have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and His Father is my Father. There are no denominations in heaven. And none in my heart. Truth is not a denomination.
solarflare,
Yes, truth is not a denomination, but 2 contradicting things that people consider truth certainly does not result in truth. Yes, we know the most important truth, but imagine how we look from the outside. The least effective way to win a soul to our Lord is by saying "mine is better than yours so dedicate your life and eternal destiny to what I believe." Then, if they somehow get beyond that they need to chose a Christian denomination. If they see some of the debates on very important topics we have they will be totally lost. They are then depending on human ability to chose truth; like us...
quote:
Christianity is the only 'religion' in the world that does not ask its followers to find their own way to heaven through good deeds or penance or balancing 'scales'. It is the only religion where the God it says it believes in, has Himself made a way for the human race to come to Him. Now, that is a God. No, that IS God. Humbling Himself to take on human form and die with our sins upon Him. That, is not intellectual. God's thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways. Transcendal enough for you?
I agree completely. How do we convince others this is anything more than a ferry tale? Telling them to use faith is like saying (in their mind) if you believe what this book says is true it will be true. They can hear that in a million and one cults and religions. Telling them we have historical proof may be a little better, but then they have to believe the records and writings of 'people' that no longer exist.
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I do not misunderstand their belief. I don't want to spiritually exist here either, but I do. However, God's word tells me that my suffering is brief compared to eternity. And my suffering is nothing compared to Christ's.
The worst struggles are the internal ones...the uncertanties...the if onlys, what ifs...and if I could justs...suffering.....you die once. Their belief is that they keep coming back and so they try to live in a manner to improve their lot in the next life.
Amen, and we have an amazing God!
One thing I feel extremely fortunate for is how I find myself born in a Christian home and in a Christian culture. Otherwise, I can only imagine the path to Christianity would be a very confusing one. Using all the world has (history, news, observation, etc.) to judge validity of our religion could scare many people away. If they know the truth of what a Christian really is they will have a different view and I need to figure out how to convey this to them.
For existing spiritually, I don't think they escape that, but they escape the egotistical human conditions. You may not have any problems with this at all, but at the various churches I visit I see the same things I see at work, in the government, and on the street. Selfish political agendas, arguing, popularity competitions, gluttony, talking bad of others, etc.
quote:
Here, is a post in response to another post of yours:
my response:
I just couldn't pass this one up.
Ahem: Let's see. You will 'see' less sin in a Buddhist community than a Christian one. What is the worst sin? You know, the one that will buy you a ticket to Hades, Hell and the hotplace? Could it be the denial of THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE IN WHOM WE LIVE AND BREATH AND HAVE OUR BEING? Oh, but Chrisitians are just so much worse....they don't have all that Buddhist peace and stuff. WELL I GUESS NOT!!!! I MEAN THE DEVIL ALREADY HAS THE BUDDHISTS...WHY WOULD HE BOTHER THEM??? Yup, let's just leave them in their peaceful non-existance and go bother the Christians until they decide to join the peaceful Buddhists.
Ay yi yi....what a myth
To any outsider this information just looks like a self justifying ego speach. They could write a book that says Buddhism is the only way..... etc etc and say "see it says right here!"
When we tell them it's the things they can't see that are important we've lost the attention of most of the audience.
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/27/2008 10:25:55 AM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
Joined: 9/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: eaglesfeather
I'm Christian, but I study traditional Buddhist philosophy out of general interest.
I realize that within Buddhism it has branched off into several religionized denominations as Christianity did, but I think the founding principles may not contradict Christianity. I see Buddhism as mainly addressing human psychology in a very effective way and not as a religion.
I'll leave it at that and pray for some educated input. Thanks!
Well... Christianity definitely dis*ap*proves of Buddism. :)
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/27/2008 10:51:51 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
I was thinking about the Christian peace a little different from what you were talking about.
I wanted to point out that Christian peace is not that easy to come by because we know both good and evil.
Yeah, well so does a 5 year old child. (know good and evil) Christ is our peace and has made peace between us and God and even between Christians if they will let Him.
quote:
If you a good person, you probably have not committed a big sin that weigh you down like a heavy burden which can make you loose sleep or peace whenever you are reminded of it.
That is not what God's word says....the Bible tells us that no one is good.
Every sin is a 'big' sin because even the smallest sin separates us from God unless we turn from sin to Chirst. Murderers can kill and still sleep soundly. Hit men do it all the time.
quote:
On the other hand, Buddhists don't acknowledge sin, or right or wrong, like we do, they can easily acquire peace by just ignoring or forgetting about it. They know how to empty those thoughts out.
Well, I may not acknowledge a truck bearing down on me when I cross the street but when it hits me I'll know it (if only briefly) The Bible teaches us that no one can deny the existance of God as He has put the knowledge of Himself in each and every one of us. To deny God is sin.
"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, SINCE WHAT MAY BE KNOWN ABOUT GOD IS PLAIN TO THEM BECAUSE GOD HAS MADE IT PLAIN TO THEM. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities -His eternal power and divine nature - have been CLEARLY SEEN, BEING UNDERSTOOD FROM WHAT HAS BEEN MADE SO THAT MEN ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE." Romans 1: 18-20 and keep reading from there because this portion of scripture is really key to so much of what is currently going on in this world.
To deny God is being a fool. "The fool says in his heart, there is no God. They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good." Psalm 14:1
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That is what meditation is all about- erase those bad thoughts from your mind and enjoy peace, free from those bad thoughts!
What meditation is about is demonic. Empty your mind......this is an open door for the entrance of demons. As Christians we are to guard our minds.......renew our minds.......not vegitate them into a state of oblivion.
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I am an English as Second Language person and love corrections, kind or unkind, positive or negative, with love or without love, which I am grateful of. Just GIVE!
Well, I speak two languages myself and sometimes find that people misunderstand my intent so I just have another go at explaining.  I am also not American, which, I find makes a marked difference in how I express myself. My husband is American and I see this principle at work between us often enough 
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/27/2008 11:07:19 AM
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kingdust
Posts: 296
Joined: 3/20/2006
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quote:
Yes, truth is not a denomination, but 2 contradicting things that people consider truth certainly does not result in truth.
Yes, we know the most important truth, but imagine how we look from the outside. The least effective way to win a soul to our Lord is by saying "mine is better than yours so dedicate your life and eternal destiny to what I believe."
Then, if they somehow get beyond that they need to chose a Christian denomination.
If they see some of the debates on very important topics we have they will be totally lost. They are then depending on human ability to chose truth; like us...
If people have to choose truth, depending on human ability, they would probably not choose Christianity, thinking it as a bloody, weak religion in which the leader had to be killed in a bloody crucifixion and His followers got either killed or persecuted ever since they confessed their faith in the leader who got rejected by His own people and killed in the hand of mere Roman soldiers.
Even if they might have interest in Christianity, they would get turned off when it comes to obeying those impossible commandments like love your enemy, pluck your eyes if your eyes sin, crucify own self, deny self, trust not in self, depend not on self, be holy, or the heavenly values that are too high or seemingly too nonsense for the earthen being.
It is a lot easier to choose Buddhism which requires no such hassle to get into its faith, than Christianity, humanly speaking that is.
Even if they can get over that somehow, which denomination or interpretation would we recommend them to embrace and how?
Right there, I found the very trait other religion has in their practice of their religion, namely 'the subjective interpretation', private interpretation if you will.
How could we differentiate our thing from their thing?
_____________________________
I am an English as Second Language person and love corrections, kind or unkind, positive or negative, with love or without love, which I am grateful of. Just GIVE!
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/27/2008 11:15:43 AM
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chrisovery
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christ taught us the same from the beginning of the earth. many of these points are missed by man throughout the old testament. christ also did not take the credit for them but gave the credit to god who he is. but that is a different study.
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It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/27/2008 11:32:48 AM
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eaglesfeather
Posts: 193
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kingdust
If people have to choose truth, depending on human ability, they would probably not choose Christianity, thinking it as a bloody, weak religion in which the leader had to be killed in a bloody crucifixion and His followers got either killed or persecuted ever since they confessed their faith in the leader who got rejected by His own people and killed in the hand of mere Roman soldiers.
Even if they might have interest in Christianity, they would get turned off when it comes to obeying those impossible commandments like love your enemy, pluck your eyes if your eyes sin, crucify own self, deny self, trust not in self, depend not on self, be holy, or the heavenly values that are too high or seemingly too nonsense for the earthen being.
It is a lot easier to choose Buddhism which requires no such hassle to get into its faith, than Christianity, humanly speaking that is.
Even if they can get over that somehow, which denomination or interpretation would we recommend them to embrace and how?
Right there, I found the very trait other religion has in their practice of their religion, namely 'the subjective interpretation', private interpretation if you will.
How could we differentiate our thing from their thing?
I agree and it's a difficult task talking to people with different beliefs if we want to appear sane. I think it should be approached differently than most do it.
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/27/2008 11:39:24 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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Yes, truth is not a denomination, but 2 contradicting things that people consider truth certainly does not result in truth. Yes, we know the most important truth, but imagine how we look from the outside. The least effective way to win a soul to our Lord is by saying "mine is better than yours so dedicate your life and eternal destiny to what I believe." Then, if they somehow get beyond that they need to chose a Christian denomination. If they see some of the debates on very important topics we have they will be totally lost. They are then depending on human ability to chose truth; like us...
OK (rolls up sleeves ).......I have never said mine is better than yours. Mine is not better than anyones.....Christ has me far more than I have Him. Or I'd be long gone........If one is speaking of truth, there can be only one and that is the entire point. Truth is not subjective. Further, Truth is a Person, Jesus Christ. I don't have to imagine how 'we' look from the outside. I don't have to watch out for the minds of sinful men. I have to be true to my calling and preach Christ and Him crucified....when I say preach, I mean exhibit, demonstrate and speak what God by His Spirit puts on my heart to say. (I am not a preacher)
Understand, that a truly born again human being is not dependant on another fallible source for their salvation as you seem to indicate above. God is the one who draws each of us to salvation ..... our part is to let the hearer 'hear' that is, we witness of Christ. The Holy Spirit convicts and each person is dealt with on an individual basis by God. THAT is what Scripture teaches. God's word does not return to Him void and yes, absolutley, some are offended. They should be. They will be. Read the Bible. It's in there.
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How do we convince others this is anything more than a ferry tale?
Again, we don't convince anyone of anything. I mean, do you really think the Buddhists go around convincing? No, the spirit (demonic deception) behind their beliefs does that work for them. The god of this world has blinded their eyes. If I am convinced, it is the work of the Holy Spirit of God who has done that work in me. Do you realize how very easy it is to become a part of this world system? It is GOD who keeps me.
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they escape the egotistical human conditions.
Only in their minds. Not in reality. Their human condition is that they are godless and sinful and separated from the One True God. They are deceived. I have been deceived. I would rather know a very hurtful truth then sleep soundly in deception. But then, I violently oppose lethargy and the status quo. But I think it is God who has given me a heart to want to know the Truth.
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You may not have any problems with this at all, but at the various churches I visit I see the same things I see at work, in the government, and on the street. Selfish political agendas, arguing, popularity competitions, gluttony, talking bad of others, etc.
Yes, and in Jesus day, they crucified the Lord of Glory. So, what has changed? We cannot use any of that as an excuse.
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To any outsider this information just looks like a self justifying ego speach. They could write a book that says Buddhism is the only way..... etc etc and say "see it says right here!"
When we tell them it's the things they can't see that are important we've lost the attention of most of the audience.
Please read Romans chapter one. It address the above.
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/27/2008 11:42:50 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
If people have to choose truth, depending on human ability, they would probably not choose Christianity, thinking it as a bloody, weak religion in which the leader had to be killed in a bloody crucifixion and His followers got either killed or persecuted ever since they confessed their faith in the leader who got rejected by His own people and killed in the hand of mere Roman soldiers.
Even if they might have interest in Christianity, they would get turned off when it comes to obeying those impossible commandments like love your enemy, pluck your eyes if your eyes sin, crucify own self, deny self, trust not in self, depend not on self, be holy, or the heavenly values that are too high or seemingly too nonsense for the earthen being.
It is a lot easier to choose Buddhism which requires no such hassle to get into its faith, than Christianity, humanly speaking that is.
Even if they can get over that somehow, which denomination or interpretation would we recommend them to embrace and how?
Right there, I found the very trait other religion has in their practice of their religion, namely 'the subjective interpretation', private interpretation if you will.
Uh,,, did you actually read what I posted? It is not how they or we think. These are spiritual battles and not won in our flesh. The spirit behind Buddhism is the spirit at work in the world....only God can move on their hearts. Be careful how you interpret who chooses what. The Bible indicates that God knows who belongs to Him. Not everyone does.
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/27/2008 11:45:58 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
Even if they might have interest in Christianity, they would get turned off when it comes to obeying those impossible commandments like love your enemy, pluck your eyes if your eyes sin, crucify own self, deny self, trust not in self, depend not on self, be holy, or the heavenly values that are too high or seemingly too nonsense for the earthen being.
Plucking your eye out is not a commandment.....love your enemy would actually be a Buddhist teaching in some circles. Go figure. Crucify yourself. Duh...what do you think Buddhists do when they deny their own flesh? Don't you get it? Line your thoughts up with what God's word actually teaches......not our human interpretations of how things should go down. 
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/27/2008 11:50:00 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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I agree and it's a difficult task talking to people with different beliefs if we want to appear sane. I think it should be approached differently than most do it.
Oh, I see. You are worried about how you look? Gee, good thing Jesus didn't worry about how He looked on the cross. See, it is not about how we look to the world. Read what Paul had to say about how the world views Christians. That is, those crucifed with Christ....not those who have a mouth full of sweet words and hate the truth.
I think it should be lived....not approached....and in line with the word of God. Sounds to me like you are trying to approach the whole thing with a Buddhist's eye to your own path.
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/27/2008 11:54:12 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
If people have to choose truth, depending on human ability, they would probably not choose Christianity, thinking it as a bloody, weak religion in which the leader had to be killed in a bloody crucifixion and His followers got either killed or persecuted ever since they confessed their faith in the leader who got rejected by His own people and killed in the hand of mere Roman soldiers.
Even if they might have interest in Christianity, they would get turned off when it comes to obeying those impossible commandments like love your enemy, pluck your eyes if your eyes sin, crucify own self, deny self, trust not in self, depend not on self, be holy, or the heavenly values that are too high or seemingly too nonsense for the earthen being.
Oh my......if one depends on the flesh rather than a Holy Omnipotent God I guess it could look that way......... Wonder how anyone EVER got saved if you look at it like that.........THAT, is NOT what the Bible teaches. Our God is ALIVE. Budda is dead. Why don't you live for Chirst, die to your flesh (see, the Buddhists do have the die part right...they just try to do it in their own strength which makes it sinful)
and be joyful in the Lord? Man, you're right......the way you are sounding on this thread is depressing!!!!!!!  Surely you don't mean to sound quite like that? It is a language thing again?
OK...well I've got to go do some things other than post on this thread....be back later......................
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RE: Does Christianity Disprove Buddhism? - 10/27/2008 12:15:39 PM
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eaglesfeather
Posts: 193
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
OK (rolls up sleeves ).......I have never said mine is better than yours. Mine is not better than anyones.....Christ has me far more than I have Him. Or I'd be long gone........If one is speaking of truth, there can be only one and that is the entire point. Truth is not subjective. Further, Truth is a Person, Jesus Christ. I don't have to imagine how 'we' look from the outside. I don't have to watch out for the minds of sinful men. I have to be true to my calling and preach Christ and Him crucified....when I say preach, I mean exhibit, demonstrate and speak what God by His Spirit puts on my heart to say. (I am not a preacher)
Understand, that a truly born again human being is not dependant on another fallible source for their salvation as you seem to indicate above. God is the one who draws each of us to salvation ..... our part is to let the hearer 'hear' that is, we witness of Christ. The Holy Spirit convicts and each person is dealt with on an individual basis by God. THAT is what Scripture teaches. God's word does not return to Him void and yes, absolutley, some are offended. They should be. They will be. Read the Bible. It's in there.
I know you didn't say yours is better than any other. I'm just speaking in general how Christianity is percieved. One of the first things new believers see is how Christians at other churches believe differently than they do on very important topics. Anybody considering the faith and researching it will see the same.
As an example your second paragraph above could have some debatabl | | |
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