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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/15/2008 12:08:59 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 443
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shabbat shalom, eschatologist.
quote:
ORIGINAL: eschatologist
Shalom Retrobyter,
Thanks for trying to put me straight, but I do take issue with a few things. The reason I left those few verses out in Mathew 24 is because I was merely trying to answer the question of how long is the great tribulation, 7 years or 3 1/2 years. To avoid making my post too long I didn't quote the verses that I felt weren't relevant to that subject.
But Verses 16- 20 in mathew 24 Jesus was telling His disciples what they must do when they see the "Abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet": "Flee into the mountains", the wilderness, head for the hills. He said we must do this right away, don't delay. If your "sitting on your housetop" or out on your patio, or relaxing on the front porch don't even go back into your house to gather any of your things and valuables and possessions, or maybe you're out working in the field or at your job or something, just start running as fast as you can. Why? Verse 21 tells us: "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." The reason Jesus said "Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days!" and "Pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:" is because it will be rough and tough. It's clear to see how fleeing into the wilderness to escape the Antichrist's forces during the great tribulation will be rough on pregnant and nursing mothers, and that it will be more difficult to flee in the winter time with frigid cold tempratures. That's all He was saying there.
The Great tribulation is a time of great persecution against all christians everywhere. There are some who will point out that christians have been persecuted and have suffered tribulation for thousands of years. That's true. But the Great tribulation is a time in which all Christians everywhere in the world will be persecuted at once. It will be the most widepread persecution of all time. That's why it's called the GREAT Tribulation. This is also a specific period of time that will begin with the placing of the abomination of desolation in the temple and will end with Jesus second coming to rapture and resurrect His saints of all ages. How do I know this? Because Jesus said so! Mathew 24:29; "Immediatley AFTERthe tribulation of those days shall the Son be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in Heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send his angels with a greatr sound of a trumpet, and they sahll gather together his elect (the rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
From what you said it seems like you believe that all or at least most prophecies have already happened in the past. But your wrong. The great tribulation is somehting that will happen ion the future. So is the Abominatiuon of desolation and the second coming of Jesus. The person in Daniel 11 is the Antichrist, not some Greek demogogue. The abomination of desolation is when the antichrist sits in the temple of God claiming that he himself is God and commands the whole world to worship him and to take his mark in their right hand or foreheads or be killed. This is something that has never happened yet and therefore is some thing that is going to happen in the future. The abomination of desolation is not a roasted pig on the altar. 
LOL! First, be careful! It's "shall the sun be darkened," not "shall the Son be darkened"! (Oops! Bad typo! Bad typo!  )
Anyway, seriously, I DO believe that most of THIS prophecy has already happened in the past, and don't just tell me I'm wrong; SHOW me HOW I'm wrong! I didn't say that there would not be A tribulation in the future; all I said is that THIS passage is NOT a Scripture that you can use to support it. THIS tribulation ("thlipsis" meaning "pressure") was in the past, specifically close to the 70 C.E. (A.D.) destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. See, this particular prophecy was MOSTLY aimed at Yeshua`s LIVING students at the time! However, one can see a SHIFT in the pronouns that determine when He is no longer strictly speaking to His LIVING students, but others as well beyond their lifetimes. That's where I strongly differ with the preterists.
Secondly, I understand that you were putting a difference between the tribulation and the great tribulation; however, this passage is not talking about either the tribulation or the great tribulation of OUR future! This passage is talking about a more immediate challenge that His students would be LITERALLY and PERSONALLY be facing! Thus, as I said, this is NOT the "tribulation" to which you are referring. That's why I said you can't leave those verses out! It's MISLEADING without them!
You said, "But Verses 16- 20 in mathew 24 Jesus was telling His disciples what they must do when they see the "Abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet": "Flee into the mountains", the wilderness, head for the hills. He said we must do this right away, don't delay. If your "sitting on your housetop" or out on your patio, or relaxing on the front porch don't even go back into your house to gather any of your things and valuables and possessions, or maybe you're out working in the field or at your job or something, just start running as fast as you can. Why? Verse 21 tells us: "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." The reason Jesus said "Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days!" and "Pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:" is because it will be rough and tough. It's clear to see how fleeing into the wilderness to escape the Antichrist's forces during the great tribulation will be rough on pregnant and nursing mothers, and that it will be more difficult to flee in the winter time with frigid cold tempratures. That's all He was saying there."
Yes, Yeshua` WAS talking about what His students must do when they see the "abomination of desolation!" I'll talk about that in a moment, but first the "flee into the mountains" part and the part about not coming down from the housetops is a DIRECT reference to THEIR city, Jerusalem, or rather Yerushalayim! Yerushalayim is situated AMONG mountains. That is their goal for where to flee. How they get there is determined by where they are at the time. If they are on her streets, they must hurry down the roads to the exits! If they are out in the fields, they are to forget going back for personal items; they must just flee without them! If they are on the housetops, they are to take "the Road of the Roofs!"
The houses are so close in Old Yerushalayim that one can jump from house to house without having to leave the relative safety of the housetops. That was called the "Road of the Roofs!" That was an escape route. Therefore, this passage was NOT directed at US! It was directed at THEM in the first century!
What difference would it make to US if it happened on Shabbat? By and large, the Christian world doesn't even worry about keeping the Shabbat! They've even renamed the first day of the week, calling Sunday the "Christian Sabbath," when Shabbat occurs from Friday evening at sundown to Saturday evening at sundown! Jews still understand this, and it was to JEWS Yeshua` was talking when He prophesied.
Also, being in the mountains, during the winter, it can get quite cold in Yerushalayim in spite of its weather being very similar at other times of the year to Florida's weather. It's cold enough to snow, and it does snow in Yerushalayim. The cold and snow and ice would definitely make it difficult to travel in winter! Furthermore, for the Jews, Shabbat had rules how far you could travel! A Shabbat's journey from Yerushalayim would be no farther than to Har haZeitiym, the Mount of Olives where they were sitting, and back! You could not travel farther without breaking God's Shabbat and being disobedient to God!
Then, you said, 'The Great tribulation is a time of great persecution against all christians everywhere. There are some who will point out that christians have been persecuted and have suffered tribulation for thousands of years. That's true. But the Great tribulation is a time in which all Christians everywhere in the world will be persecuted at once. It will be the most widepread persecution of all time. That's why it's called the GREAT Tribulation. This is also a specific period of time that will begin with the placing of the abomination of desolation in the temple and will end with Jesus second coming to rapture and resurrect His saints of all ages. How do I know this? Because Jesus said so! Mathew 24:29; "Immediatley AFTERthe tribulation of those days shall the Son be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in Heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send his angels with a greatr sound of a trumpet, and they sahll gather together his elect (the rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."'
See, the focus of this argument of yours is on "Christians everywhere," but one should ask himself or herself, "To whom was Yeshua` talking?" This passage of Scripture was NOt directed to "Christians everywhere!" It was directed to His JEWISH followers, His students, with whom He walked every day and with whom He ate and fellowshipped.
Now, about the "abomination of desolation": This is NOT what the Antichrist will do; it is what the JEWS did to the Messiah that caused THEIR OWN desolation! I will quote His words once again:
Matt 23:37-39
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV
Retrobyter
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/24/2008 7:49:57 PM
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mysaviorjesus
Posts: 21
Joined: 11/20/2008
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Questions.
So when the rapture happens, first, Jesus will call the righteous dead from the grave, then call the righteous living to keep them both from the 7 year tribulation.
Does this include all children? At what age does God take the children to avoid the 7 year tribulation?
So 1st horse is white - World Peace (how long?)
2nd horse is red - War (how long?)
3rd horse is black
4th horse is greenish-yellowish
Will there be children during the last 3.5 year of horrible tribulation? or children during the red horse of war?
Thanks in advance
_____________________________
XOVision 3.5" In-Dash DVD with Bluetooth (this radio is my grace from God)
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/24/2008 8:36:15 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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Hi mysaviorjesus and welcome...
Not many ascribe to a pre-tribulation rapture anymore…at least not on this forum. The most popular view is the gathering will occur at the sixth seal which will occur late in the seven year period. The exact point varies according to several views, anywhere from one year to as little as two days before the end. The sixth seal is seen as the beginning of God’s wrath as punishment and judgment of the beast and those who follow him.
Those gathered will be all belonging to Christ, both the dead in Christ as well as the living. Small children who have not yet reached the age of accountability would be included in the taking away. So this means all will be here for the biggest part of the seven years, including children.
The first 3 ˝ years are the beginning of sorrow and the last 3 ˝ years are the great tribulation as a result of the actions of the beast.
Yes there will be children born during the last 3 ˝ years, there will also be children born during the millennium kingdom of Christ.
I’m sure this short dissertation will not answer all of your questions and quite likely you will not agree with any of what I have described.
Feel free to voice your objections.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/24/2008 11:50:15 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 443
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shalom, Bob!
Sorry, I almost missed this post!
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Retro you are a good weaver of intrigue and now all of us are waiting for you to tell us…as Paul Harvey would say…and now you know the rest of the story.
You have told us what isn’t and that 3 ˝ years are past but you indicate that we have 3 ˝ years left at some point in our future.
You have told us not to expect an Antichrist and don’t expect a temple….so the big question is what do we expect? 
Do we just carry on as we are now until one morning we wake up and hear the trumpet? 
Bob
The truth is that we should not expect an Antichrist, but we SHOULD expect the "man against the Torah" (the "man of lawlessness" or the "man of sin"). We may not have an Antichrist, but we WILL encounter the beast of Revelation 13. I do NOT see these two as synonymous.
I didn't say that we shouldn't expect a Temple. Instead, I said that there would BE a Temple in the Millennium built by (or at least commissioned by) the King Himself, Yeshua` the Messiah. What we should NOT expect is for the Antichrist to sit in the Temple showing himself to be God. He is not an antitype of Antiochus Epiphanes, and it was Antiochus Epiphanes himself who fulfilled the prophecy of Dani'el 11:31. (Dani'el 11 covers a LOT of time, giving us the highlights.)
What we SHOULD expect is for the seals to be broken for the Lamb to read each section of curses. Because of our inability to tell one leader from another, we will probably not recognize the first seal. The second, third and fourth seals we might recognize if we see them as about the Land of Yisra'el or at least the Middle East. The fifth seal is a vision and we may also not recognize that one, but the sixth seal we should recognize!
The sixth seal is the most notable event that we will encounter first. Never before in human history has this kind of an event ever happened, and it is the event for which Yeshua` said we were to look. We can see this event described in many prophecies: Isaiah 13:10; Joel 2:10, 31; 3:15; Matthew 24:29/Mark 13:24/Luke 21:25; Acts 2:20; Revelation 6:12. This is NOT an eclipse, because it is the full moon. I believe that these prophecies all describe the earth passing through the tail of a comet or the comet or an asteroid eclipsing both the sun and the moon. It is the beginning of a meteorITE shower, not just a meteor shower!
Consider:
Sixth seal=earthquake/sun becomes black/moon becomes like blood/stars fell to the earth=HERALD METEORITES
Seventh seal=silence in the sky for 1/2 hour=LULL BEFORE THE STORM
...First shofar (alarm like an air raid siren)=hail and fire mixed in blood=MORE HERALD METEORITES and aftermath
...Second shofar=huge mountain burning with fire thrown into the sea=SEA-LANDING OF A LARGE METEORITE
...Third shofar=huge star called Apsinthos (Abisynthe; "Wormwood") sputtering like a torch falling on rivers and fresh water sources, poisoning them=LARGE METEORITE GIVING OFF GASES THAT POISON THE WATERS
...Fourth shofar=1/3 of sun, moon, and stars are darkened=DUST CLOUDS FROM THE METEORITES PARTIALLY BLOCK THE SUN, MOON, AND A 1/3 OF THE STARS
...Fifth shofar=star falls out of the sky to the ground, having the key to the abussos, releasing the locusts=METEORITE THAT STRIKES WITH ENOUGH FORCE AT THE KEY COORDINATES TO THE PIT WITH NO BOTTOM, RELEASING A SPECIES OF ARTHROPODS THAT NEEDS TO BE CARNIVOROUS BUT CANNOT EAT MEAT; ATTACKS MEN WITH BITES AND SCORPION-LIKE STINGS THAT DELIVER NERVE TOXIN TO THE VICTIMS
These seals and shofars are unparalleled in human history. (In spite of some of these being seen as "angels," all an "angel" is is a "messenger." That can mean a "messenger" from God as some sort of non-physical messenger, a human "messenger," or an inanimate object sent as a "messenger.") Every one of these, however, is said to be a star or huge hunk of rock that "falls from heaven" (or "falls from the sky") "unto the earth" (or "unto the ground").
The other thing one might notice (and should notice, if they are taking stock in Isra'el) is that they are starting to acknowledge Yeshua` as their Messiah. Messianic Judaism is spreading in great numbers among the Jewish people, including those in Isra'el and even in Yerushalayim herself! Thus, they are getting closer to the fulfillment of Matthew 23:37-39.
IMO, THESE are the events we should be looking for.
Retrobyter
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/25/2008 12:27:46 AM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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Retro...do you know how long I've been holding my breath waiting for a reply...now I can breath again. Thanks!
I'm not hung up on there being an Antichrist but I do think there will be a man of lawlessness who persecutes the saints. I see this as a man of Satan and empowered by him and I see them as almost being the same thing.
Now do you see the sixth seal as being the catching away...when the great multitude stands before the throne?
Also do you see the seventh seal as the beginning of God's wrath? I guess I’m not sure when you see the wrath of God beginning. You say the bowls begin after the seventh trumpet so what is the relationship between the seventh trumpet and the seventh seal?
Bear with me because I have a lot of questions and if I ask to many just tell me to hush. 
I might not always agree with you but I sure do value your wisdom. If I don't agree it's not because I know whats right...it's because I have developed my own understanding and that needs to be resolved.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/26/2008 5:37:41 PM
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mysaviorjesus
Posts: 21
Joined: 11/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Hi mysaviorjesus and welcome...
Not many ascribe to a pre-tribulation rapture anymore…at least not on this forum. The most popular view is the gathering will occur at the sixth seal which will occur late in the seven year period. The exact point varies according to several views, anywhere from one year to as little as two days before the end. The sixth seal is seen as the beginning of God’s wrath as punishment and judgment of the beast and those who follow him.
Those gathered will be all belonging to Christ, both the dead in Christ as well as the living. Small children who have not yet reached the age of accountability would be included in the taking away. So this means all will be here for the biggest part of the seven years, including children.
The first 3 ˝ years are the beginning of sorrow and the last 3 ˝ years are the great tribulation as a result of the actions of the beast.
Yes there will be children born during the last 3 ˝ years, there will also be children born during the millennium kingdom of Christ.
I’m sure this short dissertation will not answer all of your questions and quite likely you will not agree with any of what I have described.
Feel free to voice your objections.
Bob
I object!!! I object!!!!
lol. actually I really appreciate the info.
I got my information from listening to John MacArthur series "The Begining of the End". I have listen to the series only twice. I guess I need to listen to the series a few more times.
Your non-pre-tribulation sounds good also. Do you have a suggestion on which pastor that talks about this? Eventhough, I am fairly new to the Christian faith (about 4 months now), I have about 200 mp3 sermons from these pastors... mainly these four (Allister Begg, John MacArthur, Chuck Swindoll, and Mark Brewer) but a few from others.
_____________________________
XOVision 3.5" In-Dash DVD with Bluetooth (this radio is my grace from God)
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/26/2008 6:38:30 PM
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girlofmanycolors
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Hi mysaviorjesus, welcome to the family of God! I have been a Christian most of my life and as a southern Baptist, have been taught to believe the pre-trib theory. However, I have encountered so many opposing views on this and other forums that I am not sure what to believe anymore where the rapture of the church is concerned. I too would love to hear some good preaching on the subject. What pastors are you listening to? In the end, I don't think God wants us to know it all for sure. As long as we are ready, He will guide us through whatever comes. It's funny how the same scriptures are interpreted so many different ways.
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/26/2008 7:03:18 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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girlofmanycolors and mysaviorjesus …
Two good authors that I would suggest would be Robert Van Kampen, “The Sign” and Marv Rosenthal “Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church”.
Rosenthal was a Baptist minister and Van Kampen's was in the investment banking world, and he became one of the wealthiest men in the United States after founding the investment banking firm Van Kampen Merrit in 1974. In the 1990s, Van Kampen developed what is known today as the “"Pre-Wrath” rapture position, authoring three books on the subject.
Maybe others will have suggestion regarding other ministries and sources of enlightenment.
If Retrobyter picks up on this I’m sure he will have some good suggestions, as well as Sinner Saint.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/26/2008 7:03:59 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
Joined: 10/20/2008
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I know exactly what you mean girlofmanycolors,
I to have been taught under the baptist church, and very happy to be there too :)
They, as you say hold to a pre-trib (and I really hope they are right) but after looking at the reasons why others say mid and others post trib, my head is spinning lol
I read the mid argument, and I come away feeling it makes good sense. Then the same with post. Aaaaaahhhhh
I have a gut feeling that the church won't be so pampered as to not go through some of the troubles of the trib, but it is only a gut feeling. I always think od Noah's ark. They were kept safe during the judgement, but went through it. But then others have corrected me and said that during the flood, they rose up above it, which is a sybol of the rapture.
Then I think of the Children of Israel in Egypt, they were there through all the judgements and plagues, but were kept safe from them. I know this doesn't help, but I just wanted to say that I can see your frustration.
Sonic
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/26/2008 10:12:52 PM
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AbbyGrace
Posts: 660
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
I know exactly what you mean girlofmanycolors,
I to have been taught under the baptist church, and very happy to be there too :)
They, as you say hold to a pre-trib (and I really hope they are right) but after looking at the reasons why others say mid and others post trib, my head is spinning lol
I read the mid argument, and I come away feeling it makes good sense. Then the same with post. Aaaaaahhhhh
I have a gut feeling that the church won't be so pampered as to not go through some of the troubles of the trib, but it is only a gut feeling. I always think od Noah's ark. They were kept safe during the judgement, but went through it. But then others have corrected me and said that during the flood, they rose up above it, which is a sybol of the rapture.
Then I think of the Children of Israel in Egypt, they were there through all the judgements and plagues, but were kept safe from them. I know this doesn't help, but I just wanted to say that I can see your frustration.
Sonic
Well said Sonic :)
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." 
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/27/2008 1:41:51 AM
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Josh4LinC
Posts: 115
Joined: 11/11/2008
From: Minnesota
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Yeah, I, too, held very closely to a pre-trib view of the end-times, but I was raised Missouri Synod Lutheran. Generally, the prevailing view in that denomination is amillenialism. I received my initial introduction into the pre-millenial, pre-trib view from my dad, though. He read a lot of Hal Lindsey books in his younger days. Then I read the Left Behind series and spent a lot of time backing up my views with Scripture.
This view always did bother me, though. I found that I had to do a whole lot of literary acrobatics in order to continue holding to the view. Plus, I only surrounded myself with people with viewpoints that held to the same view.
It is relatively recent that I changed my opinion/views regarding the end times to a post-trib stance. I still hold a pre-millenial view, though. It seems to me that a straight reading of Scriptural prophecy and even deeper study lends itself better to the post-trib view of the rapture. It also makes so much more sense that even we should have to face tribulation. If God didn't snatch out the Apostles before their martyrdom and other believers, why would He remove us? Even Jesus prayed for us not to be removed from the world but that the Father would preserve us in it.
Now, as for any arguments about pre-tribbers being susceptible to falling away if their view is wrong, I don't buy it. I think there are many who will fall away. However, God knows who are His, and those whom he has given to His Son cannot be taken away. I think there exists many "Christians" who are so in name only. These are those who will "fall away" in my humble opinion. I think we can look to the parable of seeds being sown on different grounds to understand how this is possible.
_____________________________
In Christ Jesus,
Josh
“Well,” says one, “I like to be my own master.” Yes, and that involves two things;
first, you have a very bad master; and, next, your master has a fool for his servant.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/27/2008 12:04:11 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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When I think about the issue of falling away I have to come back to the fact that the ones who do not have their names written in the book of life will fall away and leave it at that.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life from the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev 13:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Rev 17:8
Almost sounds like that is already predetermined… kind of like the 1/3 of Israel who are left at the very end that will call our in the name of Christ. Oh well I guess that is just one of the mystery’s of God.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/27/2008 12:54:34 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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Hey Sonic what do you guys have for Thanksgiving over there...fish and chips 
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/27/2008 1:08:15 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
Joined: 10/20/2008
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LOL, No, that's good friday! - The sad thing is; we call it harvest festival. We don't get a day off, and in recent years, maybe 30 or so, it isn't celebrated :(
Schools have a thanksgiving harvest festival assembly, and Church remember it and give thanks. Outside that, no one even thinks of it :(
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/27/2008 1:20:07 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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Sonic...the reason we have thanksgiving is we were rapture from you guys back in 92.
Just kidding brother...your still our family and we love you.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/27/2008 1:55:15 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
Joined: 10/20/2008
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That's why we don't! LOL
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"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/27/2008 1:59:37 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
Joined: 10/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
I know exactly what you mean girlofmanycolors,
I to have been taught under the baptist church, and very happy to be there too :)
They, as you say hold to a pre-trib (and I really hope they are right) but after looking at the reasons why others say mid and others post trib, my head is spinning lol
I read the mid argument, and I come away feeling it makes good sense. Then the same with post. Aaaaaahhhhh
I have a gut feeling that the church won't be so pampered as to not go through some of the troubles of the trib, but it is only a gut feeling. I always think od Noah's ark. They were kept safe during the judgement, but went through it. But then others have corrected me and said that during the flood, they rose up above it, which is a sybol of the rapture.
Then I think of the Children of Israel in Egypt, they were there through all the judgements and plagues, but were kept safe from them. I know this doesn't help, but I just wanted to say that I can see your frustration.
Sonic
Well said Sonic :)
See, someone likes me Thanks Abby
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"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/27/2008 2:01:36 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 443
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
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Shalom, SonicStudent.
There definitely WILL be fish! Definitely during the Millennium; probably in the New Earth as well.
Zech 14:6-9
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
KJV
Ezek 47:1-12
47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ancles.
4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.
6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
KJV
Mmmmm! Fish fry!
Retrobyter
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RE: A Question Concerning the rapture? - 11/27/2008 2:06:14 PM
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Josh4LinC
Posts: 115
Joined: 11/11/2008
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
Anyway, don't stereotype us Brits! It would be fish chips AND PEAS!!!
Do you think the fish will be raptured? (just keeping things on topic!)
Well, yeah. Wouldn't it be cruel to turn the seas and lakes to blood and not at least give the fish a way out. Jeez, you wanna get PETA after God?
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In Christ Jesus,
Josh
“Well,” says one, “I like to be my own master.” Yes, and that involves two things;
first, you have a very bad master; and, next, your master has a fool for his servant.
- Charles Spurgeon
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And it's a Plaice to go and talk about the rapture and rest your sole! We should always fillet full of info 'cos its shrimportant, or else we've haddock! Yay