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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/16/2008 7:35:14 PM
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SonicStudent
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .IC.
Hi there Sonic,,
There is another thing that would really like to speak about this, and i'm hoping it won't be another 1003 days between drinks. 
Have you ever thought about not only Moses & Elijah as the Two Witnesses but also James & John as a somewhat reflection of the Two Witnesses of Revelation.
Mark 3
16 And He appointed the twelve: Simon (to whom He gave the name Peter),
17 and James, the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James (to them He gave the name Boanerges, which means, "Sons of Thunder")
 Food for thought
At the transfiguration it was Peter, James & John who went up with Jesus and they themselves witnessed Jesus with Moses & Elijah and they alone witnessed the cloud surrounding them and heard the voice of God speak to them.
Luke 9
51 When the days were approaching for His ascension, He was determined to go to Jerusalem;
52 and He sent messengers on ahead of Him, and they went and entered a village of the Samaritans to make arrangements for Him.
53 But they did not receive Him, because He was traveling toward Jerusalem.
54 When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"
55 But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;
56 for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."]
Matthew 16
18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
I guess i'm asking if Peter is the Rock, that the Church was built on & has received Christ and therfore been grafted into the Olive Tree that is Israel. Are we not now also Jew in heart and Spirit by the acts of Christ and His Ressurection. Have we not been given his Testimony and the Good News of his Life , Death, Ressurection and Revelation.
So is it possible that the Two Witnesses may actually be from the Church?
Luke 9
The Transfiguration
28 Some eight days after these sayings, He took along Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray.
29 And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming.
30 And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah,
not sure if i'm making sense here,,
any thoughts?
yours In Christ,,
God Bless
Wow IC, well observed indeed. I've never seen or noticed this!
It (again) seems a bit of a coincidence doesn't it that not only did Jesus hand pick these two disciples to go onto the mountain top to witness this meeting with Moses and Elijah, which proberly has some meaning to it. But also, when James and John went ahead of Jesus to make arrangements, which was not received by the Samaritans, they wanted (as Elijah) to bring down fire from Heaven on them.
I believe, as it was in the new testament times, there will be much that God does that we will recognise, but were not aware of at this moment.
I don't believe myself (but who knows!) that the two witnesses would be James and John, because, James and John were evangelists in the generation of Jesus' times, and the Jews did not receive their testimony the first time round and these 2 witnesses in the future are to witness to Israel. I don't believe personally that the church either would be accepted in convincing Israel, as they have not managed yet to do so. (but again, who knows!) I personally see that the main reason it makes sense that Elijah and Moses would be accepted by many of the future Jews, would be because - Moses was their first covenant giver, and the one person they boasted of (even to Jesus) and that they would believe in, if that person (Moses) was to give witness to this second covenant being legitimate, and saw it was Moses, well, it makes good sense, what greater testimony, and what love of God to send the one person His rebellious children would believe.
Likewise Elijah being sent. The Jews are waiting for him to this day so will not believe the news of Jesus as their Messiah if they do not see him. We know that John came in the spirit of Elijah the first time round to hail the coming of their Messiah. He must come before the Messiah for the Jews to accept, and he will also give witness to Moses being Moses also I'm sure. Both proving themselves through the miracles they were trade marked for originally, and both giving witness to themselves literally being the only two that saw Jesus come back alive from the dead and rise!
But it seems there is something hear I think. Some shadow or type that may have some relevance. I wonder what? They are like a reflection aren't they?
Nice one IC, well spotted.
< Message edited by SonicStudent -- 11/16/2008 7:41:38 PM >
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/22/2008 7:37:49 PM
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Bettawrekonize
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Before trying to determine who the two witnesses are, I think it's important to note that the Bible doesn't contain verses and chapters. Having said that, it appears that the end of Chapter 10 was written within the same context as the beginning of Chapter 11.
quote:
And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. (Rev 10:11 KJVR)
(emphasis added)
Who was he talking to? The author of Revelation.
quote:
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev 11:3 KJVR)
This came very shortly after chapter 10 verse 11 and appears to be within the same context. It appears one of the two witnesses is John. After all, it is John that has to prophecy again and the witnesses have to prophecy, John has to prophecy again as one of the two witnesses.
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 5:13:48 AM
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Ntech
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Just some thoughts on the thread here. You need to look at the first 2 witnesses to understand who the next pair should be. Who was the first pair? Why it was Elijah the prophet and Jesus Christ of course. And looking at the stories I would assume that there is some kind of parallel story going on. A rerun so to speak.
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 3:06:11 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
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There will always be debate as to who these two witnesses are. But I think we need to look at evidence to what they will more than likely be witnesses too. Who the text says they are witnessing too and what clues or pointers the text gives us to the identity of the two witnesses, or we are not being faithful to all the Revelation gives us here.
It seems to me that the witnesses are witnessing to the Jews regarding who their Messiah is. We know that the Jews rejected Messiah 2000 years ago, but we also know that according to scripture, the Jews will come to faith and grafted in during the tribulation.
Also we know that if this is the case, then the apostle John witnessed to the Jews for most of his adult life regarding Jesus being their Messiah, and his witness was rejected. So to me at least it seems unlikely that John would be sent to have another blast at it.
I personally do not believe that we have been shown their miracles that closely match both Moses and Elijah for no reason. It is a sign! Also, these two witnesses have something more than the twelve apostles had in the first century, as they had some 50 years plus with the message that they'd seen the risen Christ, but again, their witness was rejected. I believe, as you know, that they had something much more. They saw Messiah rise and ascend, literally, with their own eyes. To me at least it makes sense. What doesn't make sense to me is to believe that the same Apostles, with the same witness to the Jews, with only three and a half years instead of 40 to 50 years, for some reason would be sent with the same mission.
This is a witness that is being followed as the Lord instructed in the law, which is that the facts will be verified with 'two witnesses' that actually saw the event. One witness that gives testament to Jesus' covenant is the giver of the first covenant, this the Jews will believe!
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 3:08:29 PM
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jerowhy
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As to Everyone born of the Spirit, one cannot tell where they are going are where they are coming from, but one can feel that they are present with Power.
When Born as a new creation or water and the Spirit, one can see The Kingdom of God in accordance with what Jesus chooses to reveal. A new creation can perceive the things of The Spirit, but the sensual inner being in submission to the law of the sinful nature does not receive or understand (the darkness has not understood it) and is enmity with God and slavery to the whims of the evil kingdom. The servants of God hear The Lord's Voice and can see His Form (we are Created in the image of God). To as many as are led of The Spirit to the same He Gave Power to be conformed into the likeness of the image of the new creation Created in Christ to bear witness to Him in One accord submiting in Love one to Another. Blessed are they which have not seen certain things, yet have Faith in God. Blessed are they which hear The Word and put their Trust in Him to be putting it into practice. Blessed are those who after being taught and know what to do when they doing them. For if Jesus came and observed quickly what a person was doing, it is Good for that servant to be found not lazy in doing it. They wiill be called Family, blood Covenant Relatives, who perform their duties whatsover they do for God.
I want to Give the same as I was Giving You (The Apostles and those who believe Their Testimony) is the parable. All are Welcome to Come and join and drink of The Living Waters hovering over the darkness of the face of the deep of peoples hearts. There are many spiritual laurels given as recorded in the seven Church Periods for the ones who overcome the devil and his kingdom to attain to the Resurrection through The First Born among the dead among many children. There are stones, the seal of The Gospel (entrusted to Saints) as in Ezekiel for the remnant of Israel who are not devoured by The Lord's Sword from across all peoples and all 'generations', Pillars that stand forever in The Temple, etc. We are God's Workmanship in the Building up of each of Us to be included as part of the New Jerusalem City on the foudation given through Prophets and Apostles to shine as the Stars (they are as the Angels) as Sons of the Living God, remaining as part of His Building Plans for Redemption. Faith is substance resulting in actions and deeds, and Love the fulfillment of all Commandments for God Is Love in His Works through Us and Others to Produce lasting rewards.
Therefore, wee ones could make every effort to enter The Kingdom of God to vye for The Faith Given by Grace. Conforming no longer to the image of worldly peoples for the nonbelievers run after only earthly possessions. When the fire or storm comes, what will remain on the foundation that was the motivating for those built on only clay or sand or human precepts.
We see, then, that two Laureates are Chosen to Witness in this manner at Prophecy Fulfillment and They are bringing The Judgement for the blood of Righteous Abel to Righteous Zechariah and all of the witnesses who are Martyred at the fulfillment of the fifth seal for bearing Witness and Keeping the Commandments of Jesus Messiah.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
Before trying to determine who the two witnesses are, I think it's important to note that the Bible doesn't contain verses and chapters. Having said that, it appears that the end of Chapter 10 was written within the same context as the beginning of Chapter 11.
quote:
And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. (Rev 10:11 KJVR)
(emphasis added)
Who was he talking to? The author of Revelation.
quote:
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev 11:3 KJVR)
This came very shortly after chapter 10 verse 11 and appears to be within the same context. It appears one of the two witnesses is John. After all, it is John that has to prophecy again and the witnesses have to prophecy, John has to prophecy again as one of the two witnesses.
< Message edited by jerowhy -- 11/23/2008 3:42:38 PM >
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 3:12:32 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
Joined: 10/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
I have a question, why would the 2 witnesses only be witnessing to the Jews? Why wouldnt they be witnessing to the world?
I think the answer here is because the time of the Gentiles is over. The fullness of the Gentiles have come in, and God's attention here is the re-grafting in of the Jews to their own olive vine.
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 3:24:02 PM
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jerowhy
Posts: 71
Joined: 10/14/2008
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The Two Witnesses are bearing Testimony of Jesus Which Is The Spirit of Prophecy to the world to convict all of the wicked and unbelieving people of all of things that they have said regarding Jesus in the ungodly way. When He Comes, He Will convict the world (the law of the sinful flesh of the inner being which is darkness) with regard to sin, Righteouness, and Judgement.
9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
The wrath of god abides on the nonbelievers of the worldly evil one, The Love of God Abides richly with those who sup in the doing of The Will of The Father in Heaven, entering the Kingdom in so doing. The Will of God Is The Resurrection and The Life, and He Will raise them up at the last day to stand Judgment before The Great and Terrible (vengeful) Throne of God. No one comes to The Father except By Jesus' Word and He Will raise all peoples up to stand redeemed or unprepared before The Judgment Seat of Christ and The Great White Throne of The Almighty in accordance with what is written in the spiritual books and The Lambs Book of Life. For God Will Bring all things into Judgment; public and private. The Son has drawn all peoples to Him at the Cross at Golgatha and given Gifts to peoples everywhere. And especially the Greatest Gift of Eternal Life. The Covenant as in The Prophets is that He Writes Works upon the people and their sins will be no longer remembered. Whatever Good one knows to do, they would sin if not doing it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
I have a question, why would the 2 witnesses only be witnessing to the Jews? Why wouldnt they be witnessing to the world?
< Message edited by jerowhy -- 11/23/2008 3:33:57 PM >
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 3:33:46 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
Joined: 10/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
I have a question, why would the 2 witnesses only be witnessing to the Jews? Why wouldnt they be witnessing to the world?
I think the answer here is because the time of the Gentiles is over. The fullness of the Gentiles have come in, and God's attention here is the re-grafting in of the Jews to their own olive vine.
Rev. 11:10 Says:
The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts because these 2 prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
Meaning, the whole world rejoices at the deaths of these 2 witnesses who have caused trouble by saying what the people didnt want to hear-words about their sin, their need for repentance, and the coming punishment.
Yep, that's right. Once the gentiles have come in, the gentiles that are left, and even the majority of Israel will hate what the two witnesses have to say, as the majority hated Jesus and the apostles for what they had to say the first time round. The world that rejects the truth, hate the truth, therefore hate Christ or any talk of Him. This is the unbelieving world that 'don't want this man to rule over them'!
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 3:36:15 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
Joined: 10/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jerowhy
The Two Witnesses are bearing Testimony of Jesus Which Is The Spirit of Prophecy to the world to convict all of the wicked and unbelieving people of all of things that they have said regarding Jesus in the ungodly way. When He Comes, He Will convict the world (the law of the sinful flesh of the inner being which is darkness) with regard to sin, Righteouness, and Judgement.
9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
The wrath of god abides on the nonbelievers of the worldly evil one, The Love of God Abides richly with those who sup in the doing of The Will of The Father in Heaven, entering the Kingdom in so doing. The Will of God Is The Resurrection and The Life, and He Will raise them up at the last day to stand Judgment before The Great and Terrible (vengeful) Throne of God. No one comes to The Father except By Jesus' Word and He Will raise all peoples up to stand redeemed or unprepared before The Judgment Seat of Christ and The Great White Throne of The Almighty in accordance with what is written in the spiritual books and The Lambs Book of Life. For God Will Bring all things into Judgment; public and private. The Son has drawn all peoples to Him at the Cross at Golgatha and given Gifts to peoples everywhere. And especially the Greatest Gift of Eternal Life. The Covenant as in The Prophets is that He Writes Works upon the people and their sins will be no longer remembered. Whatever Good one knows to do, they would sin if not doing it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
I have a question, why would the 2 witnesses only be witnessing to the Jews? Why wouldnt they be witnessing to the world?
Amen jerowhy
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 3:42:25 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
Joined: 10/20/2008
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Yep, there is good reason to believe these two could be the guys, as both never saw death.
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 3:46:50 PM
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jerowhy
Posts: 71
Joined: 10/14/2008
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Amen, and God Bless You In The Truth Sonic! That you may be able to attain to the Glorious Riches found in Christ Jesus Messiah.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
quote:
ORIGINAL: jerowhy
The Two Witnesses are bearing Testimony of Jesus Which Is The Spirit of Prophecy to the world to convict all of the wicked and unbelieving people of all of things that they have said regarding Jesus in the ungodly way. When He Comes, He Will convict the world (the law of the sinful flesh of the inner being which is darkness) with regard to sin, Righteouness, and Judgement.
9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
The wrath of god abides on the nonbelievers of the worldly evil one, The Love of God Abides richly with those who sup in the doing of The Will of The Father in Heaven, entering the Kingdom in so doing. The Will of God Is The Resurrection and The Life, and He Will raise them up at the last day to stand Judgment before The Great and Terrible (vengeful) Throne of God. No one comes to The Father except By Jesus' Word and He Will raise all peoples up to stand redeemed or unprepared before The Judgment Seat of Christ and The Great White Throne of The Almighty in accordance with what is written in the spiritual books and The Lambs Book of Life. For God Will Bring all things into Judgment; public and private. The Son has drawn all peoples to Him at the Cross at Golgatha and given Gifts to peoples everywhere. And especially the Greatest Gift of Eternal Life. The Covenant as in The Prophets is that He Writes Works upon the people and their sins will be no longer remembered. Whatever Good one knows to do, they would sin if not doing it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
I have a question, why would the 2 witnesses only be witnessing to the Jews? Why wouldnt they be witnessing to the world?
Amen jerowhy
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 3:58:24 PM
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SonicStudent
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And to you also dear friend
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 3:58:45 PM
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eschatologist
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I hate to be the one to poke a hole in everybody's balloons, but I don't think it fits if you take all the verses into context about ther 2 witnesses.
First of all, as someone quoted earlier: "For as it is given unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." One way of looking at this is that all men only have one life to live on this earth. To say the 2 witnesses are 2 old testament prophets is to promote a type of re-incarnation where 2 people are re-incarnated to live a second life during the endtime period. I don't think this is really what's going to happen. I believe the 2 witnesses are 2 people living during this endtime period whom the Lord will raise up to be His endtime witnesses during the great tribulation period.
Revelations11:5 says they will be able to defend themselves from their enemies by devouring them with fire that proceeds out of their mouth's. And of course they will need to defend themselves numerous times during this period since the AC forces will be trying to kill them. Then in verse 7 it says that when they will have finished their testimony, then the Lord will allow the AC to kill them. SO, they will be 2 normal human beings like you and me who will eventually get martyerd by the AC forces. I don't think the Lord will re-incarnate 2 of His old testament prophets to live another life and have to get martyered for their faith.
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 4:09:07 PM
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AbbyGrace
Posts: 660
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quote:
ORIGINAL: eschatologist
I hate to be the one to poke a hole in everybody's balloons, but I don't think it fits if you take all the verses into context about ther 2 witnesses.
First of all, as someone quoted earlier: "For as it is given unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." One way of looking at this is that all men only have one life to live on this earth. To say the 2 witnesses are 2 old testament prophets is to promote a type of re-incarnation where 2 people are re-incarnated to live a second life during the endtime period. I don't think this is really what's going to happen. I believe the 2 witnesses are 2 people living during this endtime period whom the Lord will raise up to be His endtime witnesses during the great tribulation period.
Revelations11:5 says they will be able to defend themselves from their enemies by devouring them with fire that proceeds out of their mouth's. And of course they will need to defend themselves numerous times during this period since the AC forces will be trying to kill them. Then in verse 7 it says that when they will have finished their testimony, then the Lord will allow the AC to kill them. SO, they will be 2 normal human beings like you and me who will eventually get martyerd by the AC forces. I don't think the Lord will re-incarnate 2 of His old testament prophets to live another life and have to get martyered for their faith.
Rev. 11:11
Also states, But after the 3 and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12, Then they heard a loud voice from Heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to Heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.
How can it be re-incarnation, if the 2 never died to begin with?
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." 
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 4:24:26 PM
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AbbyGrace
Posts: 660
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Ok Sonic, here is just a little of what I was talking about, I will have to go back and do some reading to get the rest of it, to show you how it all comes together, and how Jeremiah is related to all of it...or so I think, lol, I could be wrong.
But Rev 10:9, 10 .....is talking about Ezekiel had a vision in which he was told to eat a scroll filled with judgments against the nation of Israel (Ezekiel 3:1).
And some where in Scripture, I'll have to find it...Jeremiah was told to do the same thing...so thats why Im wondering, could these 2 be the witnesses? I need to get all my information together, but Im pressed for time right now...just see if you can make anything of this, and I will be back later.
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 4:44:50 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
Joined: 10/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: eschatologist
I hate to be the one to poke a hole in everybody's balloons, but I don't think it fits if you take all the verses into context about ther 2 witnesses.
First of all, as someone quoted earlier: "For as it is given unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." One way of looking at this is that all men only have one life to live on this earth. To say the 2 witnesses are 2 old testament prophets is to promote a type of re-incarnation where 2 people are re-incarnated to live a second life during the endtime period. I don't think this is really what's going to happen. I believe the 2 witnesses are 2 people living during this endtime period whom the Lord will raise up to be His endtime witnesses during the great tribulation period.
Revelations11:5 says they will be able to defend themselves from their enemies by devouring them with fire that proceeds out of their mouth's. And of course they will need to defend themselves numerous times during this period since the AC forces will be trying to kill them. Then in verse 7 it says that when they will have finished their testimony, then the Lord will allow the AC to kill them. SO, they will be 2 normal human beings like you and me who will eventually get martyerd by the AC forces. I don't think the Lord will re-incarnate 2 of His old testament prophets to live another life and have to get martyered for their faith.
Hi eschatologist,
First of all, I respect your points here.
I don't think that anyone would suggest any kind of re-incarnation. Elijah never died, but was taken up. Lazarus was brought back to life by the Lord, and various others. They were dead, but walked again. The scripture says that it is apointed for men, once to live and then the judgement. I'm sure Moses when he died did go to Christ or God for judgement, I have no problem with that. It doesn't say, it is apointed once to live, then the judgement and then locked in heaven forever. We see that the saints return with the Lord. We know that when Jesus died on the cross, that many of the old testament saints were seen alive walking in Jerusalem.
I personally don't see a situation that doesn't fit in with scripture here. However, each of us have to feel we are being true to scripture, and I can't wait to know who these two are, but whoever they are, they have a massive witness to give that is gonna cause a huge stir with those that reject the truth.
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 5:01:08 PM
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jerowhy
Posts: 71
Joined: 10/14/2008
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Amen, and it would be the fulfillment that Moses and Elizah 'die' in this manner; as well. It would fulfill the Gospel according to The Apostles of God that these two at The Transfiguration would also return and lay down their lives as fifth seal Martyrs entering the First Resurrection Elect as Priests of God in The Millennium. It would also prophesy fufillment of the Body of The Elect Lady's 'rapura' event and Her Children of the grafted in branches to The Olive Tree that will occur as written during the 30-75 day window for The Desolation Decrees to begin.
Therefore, either way one looks at things is fulfillment with regard to The Prophecy in Revelation.
One noteworthy thing to speak on would be with regards to Enoch who did not have to give up the body in death in The Holy Scripture. John The Apostle and Daniel were delivered from death sentences imposed by ruling elites. Therefore, The Testimony of Jesus with regards to these things is that one must "Follow Me" without regards to trials faced, for if God is Willing He Will do anything whatsoever He desires to with His treaured money and possessions (The Saints).
Some, so called, replacement believers have substituted that The Two Olive Trees are the Believers in Christ from two folds. However, this is also evidence of the seals progression in unfolding revelatory manner through all ages until The Coming of The Millennium as the Believers endure the 'woe to the earth' because of the devil prowling around to cause trouble for those that keep Jesus' and God's Commands to Love Him and others. It does not speak, though, to the substance of Scripture whereby These Two are clothed in a certain manner with a standing Temple of God at the city Jerusalem with fire proceeding forth to destroy the armies gathered together as their flesh rots and their tongues rot in their mouths as written in the unfolding Zechariah prophecy. One could note that Joel is also an unfolding Revelation Prophecy giving concurring Testimony at Prophecy with regards to events until The Coming of The Millennium starting with the king of Assyria which is Prophesied as the locust army and also in Isaiah as fallen angelic being known as the devil who has a certain agreement with God to rule in the spiiritual realm until God's Word's are fulfilled in Revelation. You were 'the Annointed Cherubim that walked back and forth in the midst of stones of fire' until you attempted to murder in pride God and take over. Called elsewhere the king of Egypt, the Dragon, or "Rahab". The Sea Dragon who prowls the seas of the nations or Islands of the world whatsover nation or Empire that God had Sovereigly ordained in its season planted, currently, along the river Euphrates (European-like nations), and formerly in the time of Romans the trees (Empire as written in The Prophet regarding Assyria) the Empire was Prophetically planted along the Tigris (tiger or leopard-like) river. These two rivers were the riverheads at the beginning in The Garden of Eden at Prophesy whereby two of them are no longer extant because of the flood. We see that there are only two remaining after the flood with regards to the Babylon The Great. The Tree of Life is guarded by Angels in The Kingdom so that in Paradise will the right to eat of it be given to those who overcome the whiles of the devil as a Workmanship of God. He Will Be The Temple and the City is built on the Foundation of Prophets and Apostles as written.
The last river Euphrates towards the east of eden will have one punishment at the trumpets as written in Revelation. When the river is no longer watering the tree of the Empire, they will rip Babylon apart as written. For they no longer are maintaining the excessive luxuries that they had formerly maintained by keeping her afloat to give honor to the Dragon. For Mammon is a root of evil. For how much would it profit someone to lose their soul over a couple of wordly things? Yet, God makes both kinds for all things are possible With God. If the desire of a heart is only evil with regards to the law of the sinfull inner lust for greed being in these things with no regard for God in them, what someone has may perish. Will we, ourselves, escape ignoring Salvation; though?
One must have Godliness with Great gain attaining to the creation whereby God is chizeling out our place in preparation for the true Mansions (The Body is a Temple or Tabernacle or confession Booth) found to be Graciously Given the right to eat of the tree in the Garden of Eden planted in The Paradise of God bearing its fruits each month. Those in the Garden will build ciities and prosper for whatever The Righteous Does Prospers. They will perform their shining works forever With God.
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ORIGINAL: eschatologist
I hate to be the one to poke a hole in everybody's balloons, but I don't think it fits if you take all the verses into context about ther 2 witnesses.
First of all, as someone quoted earlier: "For as it is given unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." One way of looking at this is that all men only have one life to live on this earth. To say the 2 witnesses are 2 old testament prophets is to promote a type of re-incarnation where 2 people are re-incarnated to live a second life during the endtime period. I don't think this is really what's going to happen. I believe the 2 witnesses are 2 people living during this endtime period whom the Lord will raise up to be His endtime witnesses during the great tribulation period.
Revelations11:5 says they will be able to defend themselves from their enemies by devouring them with fire that proceeds out of their mouth's. And of course they will need to defend themselves numerous times during this period since the AC forces will be trying to kill them. Then in verse 7 it says that when they will have finished their testimony, then the Lord will allow the AC to kill them. SO, they will be 2 normal human beings like you and me who will eventually get martyerd by the AC forces. I don't think the Lord will re-incarnate 2 of His old testament prophets to live another life and have to get martyered for their faith.
< Message edited by jerowhy -- 11/23/2008 5:46:17 PM >
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 5:05:14 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
Ok Sonic, here is just a little of what I was talking about, I will have to go back and do some reading to get the rest of it, to show you how it all comes together, and how Jeremiah is related to all of it...or so I think, lol, I could be wrong.
But Rev 10:9, 10 .....is talking about Ezekiel had a vision in which he was told to eat a scroll filled with judgments against the nation of Israel (Ezekiel 3:1).
And some where in Scripture, I'll have to find it...Jeremiah was told to do the same thing...so thats why Im wondering, could these 2 be the witnesses? I need to get all my information together, but Im pressed for time right now...just see if you can make anything of this, and I will be back later.
Hi abbey, I'll take a look at that. It might be just that the same Lord is dealing with prophecy with the same language in all cases, I don't know. I just can't get out of my head that Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount of transfiguration with Jesus for a reason when it says they discussed what Jesus was about to accomplish, and then we see two men at the tomb obviously witnessed Jesus' resurrection, and again at the ascention. Also, it just makes so much sense to me when I see the same miracles that both Moses & Elijah did, being done again in Revelation. I just think that if the Jews rejected the apostles claim of seeing him alive, they'd have a hard time rejecting the two witnesses that literally saw him rise from death and one of them being their accepted covenant giver, bearing witness to the 2nd covenant. But who knows!
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"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: The Two Witnesses - 11/23/2008 5:18:48 PM
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AbbyGrace
Posts: 660
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
Ok Sonic, here is just a little of what I was talking about, I will have to go back and do some reading to get the rest of it, to show you how it all comes together, and how Jeremiah is related to all of it...or so I think, lol, I could be wrong.
But Rev 10:9, 10 .....is talking about Ezekiel had a vision in which he was told to eat a scroll filled with judgments against the nation of Israel (Ezekiel 3:1).
And some where in Scripture, I'll have to find it...Jeremiah was told to do the same thing...so thats why Im wondering, could these 2 be the witnesses? I need to get all my information together, but Im pressed for time right now...just see if you can make anything of this, and I will be back later.
Hi abbey, I'll take a look at that. It might be ju | | |
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