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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/11/2008 4:16:28 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DayStar43
the old Worldwide Church of God/Herbert W. Armstrong.
Which was also a cult.
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/12/2008 3:25:41 AM
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tomhillbilly
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earthless its a fact that until the cops get there members of a church would have to deal with a person causing a problem. I see no problem at all using a gun to protect members of a church from a psycho. This is nothing more than a sound-byte from some trouble maker trying to blow a minor incident up into something it is not. I doubt pastor murray has ever hurt anyone without a legitimate reason. Quite the contrary, if soldiers and veterans are now referred to as heroes then pastor murray is as well. He shed blood for this great nation so that we continue to have the freedoms that we enjoy. that being said he is definately qualified to handle a 9mm and use it justly if necessary.
considering how far back and how much digging these higher critics have had to go to label pastor murray a "false teacher" thats about as much credibility as i am willing to give. a couple of unorthodox teachings that may or may not have happened a million years ago do not seem as substantial as the other 99% of a teaching that is straight bible.
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/12/2008 3:45:15 AM
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tomhillbilly
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daystar what you call followers i call students. Alot of people sure seem to enjoy slinging the word cult around, ive checked on what a cult is though and from the definition just about any group could be called a cult. example: branch algorians for the global warming cultists.
Pastor murray has explained why he doesnt advertise his credentials. He says there is no reason to answer a bunch of higher critics as they will find fault whenever and wherever they can anyway. Pastor murray is above this sort of mud slinging, and makes this clear at the beginning of each question-and-answer period.quote "lets not judge people, its not our right to judge" "our father is the judge,and he is quite capable" "just teach Gods word chapter-by-chapter and verse-by-verse and let the chips fall where they may". These are examples of pastor murray giving the glory to God and not himself, and also to his wisdom and humility as a man and a teacher.
Maybe others could learn a thing or two and stop all the mud-slinging and gossip. It would seem a better use of their time and effort
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/12/2008 3:52:00 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
a couple of unorthodox teachings that may or may not have happened a million years ago do not seem as substantial as the other 99% of a teaching that is straight bible.
If a man does not teach the truth about God, whatever else he teaches is worthless. Our salvation depends upon who we believe Christ to be.
It is my understanding that this man does not hold to the truth that God exists as three divine Persons -- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. If you have anything from Arnold Murray that refutes this statement, please provide it. Otherwise it would be best for you to turn away from this false teacher, since Scripture teaches us to do so.
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/12/2008 4:15:42 AM
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tomhillbilly
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Ezra if i could give proof i would be glad to. unfortunately my computer skills are almost non-existant.
I suppose if you had a little time you could check the website at- shepherdschapel.com or maybe dotorg if its non-profit.
im in west virginia and have done my studying at 5:00 am on the weekdays on fox. its on other channels at different times also but im not sure of channels and times, this is one of few things i watch on tv.
As far as what i know of the trinity pastor murray's teaching seems to be the same and line up with what would be considered fundamental trinity doctrine. It matches with what ive heard here in forums and the regular chat. i hope that helps some
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/12/2008 1:12:30 PM
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GodsMusic
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Here's a pretty good read:
http://www.carm.org/chapel/arnold_murray.htm
By the way tomhillbilly, I notice you ALWAYS refer to Arnold Murray as "Pastor" Murray.
Have you ever met the man in person?
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/12/2008 6:38:44 PM
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tomhillbilly
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no my friend i have never met the man personally. Never even been to arkansas.
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/12/2008 7:08:20 PM
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tomhillbilly
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I read the article from this "christian apologetics and research ministry" Its enough that in this article they align themselves with "the ontario consultants on religious tolerance,a secular religious analyses organization".
Sounds like a buncha atheists and pagans to me. The fact that in this and other articles they toss in pastor murrays honorable service to this great nation in the marine corps and insinuate that he's lying about this too takes away any credibility these hacks might have.
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/13/2008 1:13:46 PM
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GodsMusic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
no my friend i have never met the man personally. Never even been to arkansas.
Tom, do you attend church?
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/13/2008 7:04:18 PM
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tomhillbilly
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no i dont attend church godsmusic and i will explain why.
ive been to several churches in the past, including when i served in the united states army infantry and the jehovas witness church. While they have some good sermons and tell a few good jokes, they never seem to get around to teaching Gods word chapter-by-chapter and verse-by-verse
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/13/2008 7:28:49 PM
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GodsMusic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
no i dont attend church godsmusic and i will explain why.
ive been to several churches in the past, including when i served in the united states army infantry and the jehovas witness church. While they have some good sermons and tell a few good jokes, they never seem to get around to teaching Gods word chapter-by-chapter and verse-by-verse
Well Tom, I'm glad you're away from the JW. That's some bad stuff.
But I'd love to encourage you to find a good bible believing/teaching church.
TV is not enough for anyone, I don't care how strong you are. You know yourself the scripture teaches us to assemble ourselves together, and there is a reason for that.
Now, I'm from Arkansas. I've been to Gravette on business, and it aint all that I promise you. Neither is Arnold Murray.
BTW, how'd you come up with your name "Hillbilly"?
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/13/2008 7:41:00 PM
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tomhillbilly
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i appreciate your words godsmusic. Tell me though, how in the world am i suposed to associate with a buncha "ear scratchers" after studying Gods word chapter-by-chapter and verse-by-verse for the last ten years?
i use hillbilly because im from the great state of west virginia(the most veterans who fought in more wars then any other state) FOR SPARTA! FOR FREEDOM!! TO THE DEATH!!!
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/13/2008 8:02:42 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
no i dont attend church godsmusic and i will explain why.
ive been to several churches in the past, including when i served in the united states army infantry and the jehovas witness church. While they have some good sermons and tell a few good jokes, they never seem to get around to teaching Gods word chapter-by-chapter and verse-by-verse
They never will be be able to teach God's Word because they are cult. Their teachings are not Christian by any stretch of the word.
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/14/2008 6:44:59 AM
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tomhillbilly
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earthless i was talking about the number of different churches i have attended in the past. Also the many i have briefly encountered on christian tv channels. Pastor murray is the only teaching ive encountered that is chapter-by-chapter and verse-by-verse.
that being said im not gonna call every other church a cult just because theyre style doesnt fit my personal studying taste
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/14/2008 8:14:51 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
that being said im not gonna call every other church a cult just because theyre style doesnt fit my personal studying taste
That's a good thing - BUT - the Jehovah Witnesses organization is a cult. That is not up for interpretation or opinion.
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/14/2008 8:37:15 AM
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tomhillbilly
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earthless a cult has a negative "feel" to it though. My opinion is from what i saw of them is that they live pretty darn righteously, a good example for the world in my book, but sadly sets them apart from "the world". Surely they dont bother anyone or act strangely enough to be labeled a cult.
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/14/2008 8:44:14 AM
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stephanos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
earthless a cult has a negative "feel" to it though. My opinion is from what i saw of them is that they live pretty darn righteously, a good example for the world in my book, but sadly sets them apart from "the world". Surely they dont bother anyone or act strangely enough to be labeled a cult.
Umm...lets see...
They deny the trinity (call it a satanic ploy)
They say that Jesus was the incarnate form of Michale the Archangel
They say Jesus was not realy raised from the dead physically but as a spiritual being
They believe only 144000 will beable to go to heaven, (other believers simply get to stay on earth after God whipes out all non-believers.)
You dont want to call them a cult...fine...but they are DEFIANTLY NOT CHRISTIANS
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/14/2008 10:04:21 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
earthless a cult has a negative "feel" to it though. My opinion is from what i saw of them is that they live pretty darn righteously, a good example for the world in my book, but sadly sets them apart from "the world". Surely they dont bother anyone or act strangely enough to be labeled a cult.
It is what their organization is. They are not Christians and what they teach is a cult off shoot of Christianity. The Watchtower Organization is a cult and so are the local Kingdom Halls.
It is glaringly apparent that you do not know what they teach and or their history. I recommend you read Ron Rhodes book on JW's.
Or check out the one-stop thread we have on this board regarding JW.
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/14/2008 10:43:55 AM
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tomhillbilly
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i dont how in the world we got onto jehovas witnesses or why its my job to defend them but so be it. Have you folks or anyone else ever been forced at gunpoint or bound and gagged and dragged to a kingdom hall. Its not like they go around beating down peoples doors and forcing them to convert.
or can anyone give me an example where they hurt anyone at all? they seem like pretty nice and well mannered people to me,and a testimony towards righteous living. This would seem to me an indication that they live more of a christian lifestyle than many of their detractors.
As to whether or not who is christian and who aint, i would suggest caution in this area
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/14/2008 11:11:18 AM
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femmule
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Hi all, I'm new here. Curiously enough I've been searching for a group discussing Arnold Murray. My father-in-law is a follower and I have been praying for him to see the plainly written truth of God's Word. I have many problems with Arnold's teachings.
The biggest one is the fact that my eight-year-old daughter could not possibly discern what he teaches. He teaches in a "gnostic" fashion, leading his followers to believe that only he is qualified to teach the secretive "real" truth somehow. He does an AWFUL lot of explaining things away and reinterpreting verses. He takes the similie used in 2 Peter 8 "...With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." and applies it to the Creation Week. Peter is NOT stating that 1 day = 1 thousand years, he's stating it is "like". Anyway, he's not talking about the Creation Week at all, he's talking about how the Lord is outside of time unlike us, to us time is very important, but the Lord is patient and will return in his due time.
He believes in the "Gap Theory & Ruin-Reconstruction Theories" and "Serpent Seed Doctrine" among others heresies.
The "Gap Theory" tries to place a gap of indeterminate time between the first two verses of Genesis 1. This is to allow for millions of years of time that Satan caused a rebellion, some believe that this was when "Lucifier's flood" was caused.
Big problem here, nowhere in the Bible does it state this, this is indeed adding to the Bible and construing one's own opinion. They allow this to agree with secular scientists provision of millions/billions of years and the fossil record. Then to back it up they dismiss Noah's flood as merely local in nature. If Noah's flood was local, why did God have him build an ark to save his family and the animals? Why didn't Noah and his family just walk across the mountain range to find safety elsewhere? Plus when God used the rainbow as a covenant to promise to never judge the world in this fashion again, does that mean he's been lying to us all these years? After all, we've had numerous large local floods all over the earth since then. Also, in 2 Peter 3 the coming judgement of fire is likened to the former judgement of water in Noah's flood, and to be consistent, if it was only a "partial" flood in Noah's day, that means the judgement of fire will be "partial" as well. We could go on and on with re-interpreting and mixing and matching to one's own liking here.
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/14/2008 11:18:06 AM
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Ps103
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Please take the Jehovah's Witness discussion to a different thread.
Thanks!
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
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Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/14/2008 1:47:03 PM
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GodsMusic
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Well for a man to state that he as been "studying with" "Pastor" Murray for 10 years and doens't regularly attend church because none are good enough compared to Murray? Sounds very cultish. But if one could'nt discern that JWitness deny the diety of Christ, then why should we expect him to discern that Arnold Murray is a false teacher?
Also, Tomhillbilly why is it that you the verse by verse teaching is God's only way for us to learn of Him? Chapter and verse, please.
If fact it pleases God through the foolishness of "Preaching". Says nothing about verse by verse teaching.
Nothing wrong with verse by verse teaching, but it's not the cure all.
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/14/2008 4:03:10 PM
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tomhillbilly
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another country heard from
hey welcome to the forums femmule!
i never claimed to be a "follower" of pastor murray. This term is just another way for people to say cult. I do admire his style and his sand, encouraging people to stay strong and trust in Gods word. i guess he reminds me of my granpa and people of that generation.
Godsmusic Yes i dont attend church because i enjoy studying Gods word in more depth. It would be a waste of my time and theirs for me to listen to someone yakkity-yak for an hour and maybe get around to reading a verse from the bible.
The bible is available to us all, i dont see any other way to learn about God. chapter and verse? hey start from the beginning or anywhere you would like i suppose.
Look im not saying church is a bad thing, if you have fun and friends/family you like to sing and dance wih and stuff by all means i aint stoppin ya. The problem is they never seem to get around to teaching Gods word chapter-by-chapter and verse-by-verse. If this is the case i dont see how the whole lot of them add up to patch on pastor murrays over-alls
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/14/2008 6:05:40 PM
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earthless
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Sigh... how can someone believe it doesn't matter what you believe....
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RE: PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY - 11/14/2008 6:14:09 PM
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tomhillbilly
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i would ask in response how can some people think all they have to do is believe?
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