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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 6:29:22 PM
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zamdad
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Chaplainwinston, why didn't you just come out with your liberation theology message to begin with? Are you trying to convert people to Christ or to the Church of BLT?
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 6:33:18 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 441
Joined: 6/7/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
"Christian Revolution in Latin America:
The Changing Face of Liberation Theology"
Part One in a Three-Part Series
on Liberation Theology
by Ron Rhodes
Strictly speaking, liberation theology should be understood as a family of theologies - including the Latin American, Black, and feminist varieties. All three respond to some form of oppression: Latin American liberation theologians say their poverty-stricken people have been oppressed and exploited by rich, capitalist nations. Black liberation theologians argue that their people have suffered oppression at the hands of racist whites. Feminist liberation theologians lay heavy emphasis upon the status and liberation of women in a male-dominated society.
Jesus Christ. While liberation theologians do not outright deny Christ's deity, there is no clear-cut, unambiguous confession that Jesus is God. The significance of Jesus Christ lies in His example of struggling for the poor and the outcast. The Incarnation is reinterpreted to represent God's total immersion into man's history of conflict and oppression. By His words and actions, Jesus showed us how to become true sons of God - that is, by bringing in the kingdom of God through actively pursuing the liberation of the oppressed.
Most liberationists see Jesus' death on the cross as having no vicarious value; rather, Jesus died because He upset the religious/political situation of His time. Leonardo Boff says Jesus' followers fabricated the idea that Jesus' death had a transcendent, salvific significance: "The historically true events are the crucifixion, the condemnation by Pilate, and the inscription on the cross in three languages known by the Jews. The rest of the events are theologized or are pure theology developed in light of the resurrection and of the reflection upon the Old Testament."[10] Jesus' death is unique because "he historicizes in exemplary fashion the suffering experienced by God in all the crosses of the oppressed."[11] Liberationists acknowledge Jesus' resurrection, but they are not clear on its significance.
God. Liberationists argue that the traditional Christian doctrine of God manipulates the divine being such that He appears to favor the capitalistic social structure. They claim the orthodox view of God is rooted in the ancient Greeks who saw God as a static being - distant and remote from human history. This distorted view of a transcendent deity has, they say, yielded a theology that understands God as "out there," far removed from the affairs of humankind. As a result, many Latin Americans have adopted a passive stance in the face of their oppression and exploitation.
Liberation theologians have thus tried to communicate to their compatriots that God is not impassive. Rather, He is dynamically involved in behalf of the poor and downtrodden. And because God stands against oppression and exploitation, those who follow Him must do likewise. Indeed, Gutierrez says that "to know God is to do justice."[9]
A perfect explanation of Marxism disguised as faith.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 7:02:09 PM
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ta_mosquito
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 7:16:33 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the new and improved gov approved Christianity. All who do not follow this new and improved Christianity will be 'reprogramed' in order to understand their faults.
BLAH!! Sorry, Chaplain, no points for this one. You're way off. And you do know these are the end days. All these annoying christians may one day just disappear. Enjoy your time!!!
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
"Christian Revolution in Latin America:
The Changing Face of Liberation Theology"
Part One in a Three-Part Series
on Liberation Theology
by Ron Rhodes
Strictly speaking, liberation theology should be understood as a family of theologies - including the Latin American, Black, and feminist varieties. All three respond to some form of oppression: Latin American liberation theologians say their poverty-stricken people have been oppressed and exploited by rich, capitalist nations. Black liberation theologians argue that their people have suffered oppression at the hands of racist whites. Feminist liberation theologians lay heavy emphasis upon the status and liberation of women in a male-dominated society.
Jesus Christ. While liberation theologians do not outright deny Christ's deity, there is no clear-cut, unambiguous confession that Jesus is God. The significance of Jesus Christ lies in His example of struggling for the poor and the outcast. The Incarnation is reinterpreted to represent God's total immersion into man's history of conflict and oppression. By His words and actions, Jesus showed us how to become true sons of God - that is, by bringing in the kingdom of God through actively pursuing the liberation of the oppressed.
Most liberationists see Jesus' death on the cross as having no vicarious value; rather, Jesus died because He upset the religious/political situation of His time. Leonardo Boff says Jesus' followers fabricated the idea that Jesus' death had a transcendent, salvific significance: "The historically true events are the crucifixion, the condemnation by Pilate, and the inscription on the cross in three languages known by the Jews. The rest of the events are theologized or are pure theology developed in light of the resurrection and of the reflection upon the Old Testament."[10] Jesus' death is unique because "he historicizes in exemplary fashion the suffering experienced by God in all the crosses of the oppressed."[11] Liberationists acknowledge Jesus' resurrection, but they are not clear on its significance.
God. Liberationists argue that the traditional Christian doctrine of God manipulates the divine being such that He appears to favor the capitalistic social structure. They claim the orthodox view of God is rooted in the ancient Greeks who saw God as a static being - distant and remote from human history. This distorted view of a transcendent deity has, they say, yielded a theology that understands God as "out there," far removed from the affairs of humankind. As a result, many Latin Americans have adopted a passive stance in the face of their oppression and exploitation.
Liberation theologians have thus tried to communicate to their compatriots that God is not impassive. Rather, He is dynamically involved in behalf of the poor and downtrodden. And because God stands against oppression and exploitation, those who follow Him must do likewise. Indeed, Gutierrez says that "to know God is to do justice."[9]
A perfect explanation of Marxism disguised as faith.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 7:49:17 PM
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chaplainwinston
Posts: 83
Joined: 7/31/2006
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quote:
Chaplainwinston, why didn't you just come out with your liberation theology message to begin with? Are you trying to convert people to Christ or to the Church of BLT?
I don't follow BLT, I just researched the web because you brought up BLT. I wanted to know more. I questioned your assertions.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 8:01:13 PM
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LivingParadox
Posts: 926
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: online
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Do you realize you have spent 5 pages of a thread an not 1 person has seen your comparsion as accurate?
I think maybe you should stick to your admiration of Obama for the secular figure he is and not try to fit him into some kind of biblical representation. Though he's probably not a bad person, I just don't think he's quite in the place of faith you want to give him credit based on the views he openly says he supports.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 10:02:08 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/12/2005
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And all God's children said, AMEN!!!
Sorry, Chaplain, no points again. You can gush and gush, but we won't bite. Sorry, we're just mean. :)
quote:
ORIGINAL: LivingParadox
Do you realize you have spent 5 pages of a thread an not 1 person has seen your comparsion as accurate?
I think maybe you should stick to your admiration of Obama for the secular figure he is and not try to fit him into some kind of biblical representation. Though he's probably not a bad person, I just don't think he's quite in the place of faith you want to give him credit based on the views he openly says he supports.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/13/2008 6:32:16 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3462
Joined: 4/11/2005
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chaplinwinston you seem a nice person. I am not going to bash you, but I will be honest with you. You need to get your eyes off a man. This is not a good man, who has blinded many people with his false claims of hope.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/14/2008 9:09:09 AM
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worthaboverubies
Posts: 148
Joined: 8/11/2006
Status: offline
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This is undoubtably my favorite thread.
Chaplain you should just go for broke and make the leap and compare him to you savior.
< Message edited by worthaboverubies -- 11/14/2008 9:54:28 AM >
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/14/2008 11:59:44 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3471
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
Robinson notes in their three private conversations, Obama voiced his support for "equal civil rights" for homosexuals and described the election as a "religious experience."
Remember, all the wars around the world are usually
"religious" wars.
Joseph would not violate himself, his ancestors, nor his God.
Obama's god is himself.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/14/2008 8:46:13 PM
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chaplainwinston
Posts: 83
Joined: 7/31/2006
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quote:
quote:
who has blinded "many people" with his false claims
No nO...only "certian" people , rembember ...to fit the claims of equaliy... only certian people apply
For example
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=315364
I guess Joseph was a bit wierd also...
Thank you for the website. America is going to hell in a handbasket. It is turning into a modern day Sodom and Gamorrah. I take back everything I said about Obama. It is nice having a black President but I hope he does no take us down the wrong track spritually. Bush was bad enough. Mccain isn't any better. We don't get good choices anymore. I'm considering not voting anymore accept for things like yes on proposition 8.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/14/2008 9:06:37 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1755
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I'm considering not voting anymore accept for things like yes on proposition 8.
And this is why the country is swirling around the bowl. When we begin to feel like we have no say so, we take our ball and go home.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/14/2008 9:29:09 PM
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chaplainwinston
Posts: 83
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
who has blinded "many people" with his false claims
No nO...only "certian" people , rembember ...to fit the claims of equaliy... only certian people apply
For example
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=315364
I guess Joseph was a bit wierd also...
Thank you for the website. America is going to hell in a handbasket. It is turning into a modern day Sodom and Gamorrah. I take back everything I said about Obama. It is nice having a black President but I hope he does no take us down the wrong track spritually. Bush was bad enough. Mccain isn't any better. We don't get good choices anymore. I'm considering not voting anymore accept for things like yes on proposition 8.
How do we look up to our Church leaders? The President of the Evangelical Church is Bi-sexual!!!
He was having relations with a male Prostitute. Homosexuality is rampant in the Church. We have to look to Jesus who is the author and finisher of our faith. We have to know God for ourselves. Hebrews says that we are his people and we know who he is. His word is written on our hearts not on tablets of stone. That's the blessing of the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was fulfilled by Jesus dieing on the cross and passed away. Jesus ushered in a new and better covenant with better promises. The old covenant wasn't perfect, if it was there would be no need for a new one. The law could not save us but was only a tutor. If you missed on one point you are guilty of all. Adam and Eve were guilty on one point.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/15/2008 9:09:12 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3462
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I like your humility. I think that it is great to have a black president also; eventhough, I am a very blonde white woman. I understand what it means to the black community it smells like a measure of justice to those who have been opressed. My friend, who loves the Lord is a black woman, I ask her what she thought about the election. She was so full of glee, she said" I told my mother, when I was little I would never see a black man be president." I said " Bernice, I know this seems a great thing to you, and I will not down it." Then I ask her about partial birth abortion, Obama's stance on homsexuality and such. She was shocked, she said " Girl partial birth abortion that really happens?" She did not even know some of the issues, all she could see was he was a black man. Well actually mixed race, and I wonder if a man that was truly not mixed race, just a black man would have won, because, you see many young white men, and women identify with him also. You see I think the Lord is who we worship first. You know the scripture about taking up the cross, and loving ( Jesus) more than you love your father, mother, son, daughter, even your own self, or you cannot be his disciple. At our last curch of many years, my youngest daughter was hurt, and their was no justice. My husband resigned his eldership, we left a congergation of people we loved very much. we attend a new church, and I cried missing my old church, during P&W. I had such resentment in my heart, for, the down right, unfair, mean treatment of my daughter, and family. Then I went to SS, at the new church, and this scipture, I loosely quoted came up. I always thought I could not forgive those who hurt my child. Then as I pondered that scripture, I prayed all day that sunday, and forgivness came. I realized it has to be all about Jesus first. I have occasional struggles since, but that verse comes to mind. So if you are a person of color, you have to love Jesus more than ethnic background. I am not saying having a God given admiration for the blacks community and how they have overcome, or are overcoming oppression, as long as your eyes are on the Lord first, he will balance it out. Sorry for the rambiling, I just feel if you are a person of color this is very confusing for you. I said it before, I can see your kindness and fruit, look for that in others when looking for a pastor, along with sound doctrine. Tony Evens, the late EV Hill, are and were men of color that I love very much, and have/ had very sound doctrine, and truth in love.
quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
quote:
who has blinded "many people" with his false claims
No nO...only "certian" people , rembember ...to fit the claims of equaliy... only certian people apply
For example
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=315364
I guess Joseph was a bit wierd also...
Thank you for the website. America is going to hell in a handbasket. It is turning into a modern day Sodom and Gamorrah. I take back everything I said about Obama. It is nice having a black President but I hope he does no take us down the wrong track spritually. Bush was bad enough. Mccain isn't any better. We don't get good choices anymore. I'm considering not voting anymore accept for things like yes on proposition 8.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/15/2008 9:10:45 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3156
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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Kinda makes you wonder...why didn't Jesse Jackson win?
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/15/2008 9:16:41 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3462
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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I think it is because whites could except a mixed race man, but, not a plain black man. Jesse, Lord forgive me, is to one sided also not playing both sides of the fence. Obama, has that one down. Maybe because Obama can, being he bi-racial.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Kinda makes you wonder...why didn't Jesse Jackson win?
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/15/2008 10:07:25 AM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11451
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Please keep this on the subject of the possible parallel between Obama and Joseph; please don't venture into why he won (i.e. his race) and why other black men haven't.
Thanks!
Tricia
Forums Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/16/2008 5:30:44 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/12/2005
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It gets worse, chaplain. Here's Obama's address to the Senate Here's what bothers me:
Moreover, if we progressives shed some of these biases, we might recognize some overlapping values that both religious and secular people share when it comes to the moral and material direction of our country. We might recognize that the call to sacrifice on behalf of the next generation, the need to think in terms of "thou" and not just "I," resonates in religious congregations all across the country. And we might realize that we have the ability to reach out to the evangelical community and engage millions of religious Americans in the larger project of American renewal.
In other words, let's just have a nice, secular christianity that doesn't have that bothersome Bible in it, and just sing and looooveee each other. Yeah, right. He wants those of us who follow after God to do this. Nope, sorry.
And let's not forget this guy: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5100064.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1
Bishop Robinson said: “He and I would agree about the rightful place of religion vis-a-vis the secular state. That is to say, we don’t impose our religious values on the secular state because God said so. Our faith informs our own values and then we take those values into the civil market place, the civil discourse, and then you argue for them based on the Constitution. You don’t say to someone, you must believe this because this is what God believes.
“I think God gives us our values and then we argue for those on the basis of the Constitution and care of our neighbour. And I think the Bush administration got very very close to the line if not going over the line in terms of offering support to religious-based groups who were using their social service arms to proselytise and evangelise which I would say is inappropriate.” ou
Now you understand why us christians are against him. He wants a happy, no one's offended christianity. That's not what my God wants. I personally want what God wants. :) Based on all of this, I refuse to offend Joseph's name by comparing Obama to Joseph. Joseph is rolling in his grave.
quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
quote:
who has blinded "many people" with his false claims
No nO...only "certian" people , rembember ...to fit the claims of equaliy... only certian people apply
For example
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=315364
I guess Joseph was a bit wierd also...
Thank you for the website. America is going to hell in a handbasket. It is turning into a modern day Sodom and Gamorrah. I take back everything I said about Obama. It is nice having a black President but I hope he does no take us down the wrong track spritually. Bush was bad enough. Mccain isn't any better. We don't get good choices anymore. I'm considering not voting anymore accept for things like yes on proposition 8.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/17/2008 3:11:32 AM
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chaplainwinston
Posts: 83
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
Now you understand why us christians are against him. He wants a happy, no one's offended christianity. That's not what my God wants. I personally want what God wants. :) Based on all of this, I refuse to offend Joseph's name by comparing Obama to Joseph. Joseph is rolling in his grave.
You Have to keep the folowing verse in mind also. Some translations use the word government.
Romans 13:1
Subjection to magistrates and other duties we owe them
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
Romans 13:1-6 (KJV)
All Christians are not against him. I don't like many things he believes about the Bible. All denonimations don't agree also. 45,000 Evangelical Churches, 30 million people believed in Ted Haggard their president, but he was found to be bi-sexual. That is worse that Obama's beliefs according to Romans 1. God turned those who rejected God into homosexuals. Obama like Joseph is a higher power ordained of God. Becareful of damnation. If you are a Christian you won't lose your salvation because of your beliefs either. There are many false prophets and teachers of error in the Church. Paul warned us in Scripture crying for 3 days. There are leaders in the Church that are abominations. Judgment begins in the house of the Lord.
Again pray for those that deceitfully use you, love your enemies and it will be like pouring coals on thier heads, bless and curse not, vengance is mine saith the Lord. Even Joseph forgave his brothers who sold him into slavery saying it was God's will. Obama is not the first President who represented all Americans not just Christians. We have freedom of all religions in this Country. Our government has never been a Theocracy, it is a Rebublic.
< Message edited by chaplainwinston -- 11/17/2008 7:56:22 AM >
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/17/2008 9:40:07 AM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 255
Status: offline
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quote:
Obama is scary because his followers seem to almost be worshipping him as a god.
After watching MSNBC's special on The People's Temple and Jim Jones, this weekend, that's what alot of it reminds me of. Not Obama himself, but just the way those who voted for him think he's some kind of savior. But Joseph? Nah.
_____________________________
"Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master" - Sallust
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Obama is scary because his followers seem to almost be worshipping him as a god.
