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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/17/2008 2:45:14 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3471
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
Our government has never been a Theocracy, it is a Rebublic.
If we truly listen to what Obama is really saying
we will realize we won't be a Republic long if he does what he says he wants.
We have to "pay attention."
Lay aside all biases on both sides.
Listen and beware.
Jesus warns us in many places, "Be ware!!!!"
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/17/2008 3:51:00 PM
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chaplainwinston
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quote:
After watching MSNBC's special on The People's Temple and Jim Jones, this weekend, that's what alot of it reminds me of. Not Obama himself, but just the way those who voted for him think he's some kind of savior. But Joseph? Nah.
I can't help but notice how you won't comment on Ted Haggard and other Church leaders like Benny Hinn for example. Are they more like Joseph than Obama? Benny Hinns prophecies never come true.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/17/2008 6:30:08 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3462
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
After watching MSNBC's special on The People's Temple and Jim Jones, this weekend, that's what alot of it reminds me of. Not Obama himself, but just the way those who voted for him think he's some kind of savior. But Joseph? Nah.
I can't help but notice how you won't comment on Ted Haggard and other Church leaders like Benny Hinn for example. Are they more like Joseph than Obama? Benny Hinns prophecies never come true.
I watched the same thing, (MSNBC) and honestly had the same thoughts. People atleast most of us do not even think, in a remote way that Benny or Ted, are a type of anyone or anything. Please people do not worship them in the street. Can you not see Obama, really see who he is? And if not why?
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/17/2008 8:56:21 PM
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chaplainwinston
Posts: 83
Joined: 7/31/2006
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quote:
Can you not see Obama, really see who he is? And if not why?
Sure I do. He represents a lot of present day thinking in America. The Church is just as guilty, they always follow the ways of the world instead of sound doctrine. The Bible prophocies that the will be a time when people won't hold to sound doctrine. It will only get worse. Why God puts people like him in charge of governments I don't know. But we have to obey Scripture and heed to Romans 13:1. No matter what our opinions may be or differ. God is ultimately in control even from the beginning. We all have fallen short of the glory of God. We all still sin. Thank God Jesus paid for all of the sins of believers. You said you do not know if he is Christian or not. Why judge him? For there is there no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. If the Spirit dwells in you you walk after the Spirit. Paul said he became all things that perhaps he may save some.
In light of Ted Haggard and other Church leaders I don't think Christians have much Spiritual discernment. Perhaps the gifts of the Spirit aren't operating in Church anymore. I know much word isn't being taught there. The members refuse to go to Bible College or Seminary where the teachers are. When they come to Churches only a few attend. If the Church was more discerning perhaps would could get Godly men to run and get elected to public office. Now they have professionals to teach they how to be effective in front of the camera and in public. I saw on the history channel where Hillary Clinton was a submissive Presidental wife and was transformed to become an agressive power house to run for Senate and President. They showed before and after videos and identified her methodology. They said Obama was natural and sounded like a Baptist Preacher.
< Message edited by chaplainwinston -- 11/17/2008 9:07:24 PM >
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/17/2008 9:58:26 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
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I agree wholeheartly. We must respect his office as president and I do. I will not slander him or accuse him of ill. I refuse to lower myself to the standards of the libs when they attacked Bush, slandered him and accuse him of doing things he didn't do. But I won't give up my beliefs b/c he wants me to. He seems to be more secular, which is fine, but he also wants ME to be more secular, which isn't fine. That's what concerns me. He made a seal in which he used the presidential seal and he took out In God We Trust and put it Yes we can. That worries me again. Now if he wants to be this way, then he has that right, but don't expect ME to be that way also. That's what concerns ALL of us. Yes, persecution is coming and is good for us, but we need to know from where it will come. Our president? Perhaps. But God is faithful and will help us in our times of need. I want to be able to pray for my president that he will accept me and my beliefs. It also worries me that other christians don't seem to care that he might, and I say might, take their beliefs from them. But each his own. :) In other words, I need to know where I stand. If he tries to sneak in and snatch my beliefs, then I want to slap his hands. capise?
quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
Now you understand why us christians are against him. He wants a happy, no one's offended christianity. That's not what my God wants. I personally want what God wants. :) Based on all of this, I refuse to offend Joseph's name by comparing Obama to Joseph. Joseph is rolling in his grave.
You Have to keep the folowing verse in mind also. Some translations use the word government.
Romans 13:1
Subjection to magistrates and other duties we owe them
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
Romans 13:1-6 (KJV)
All Christians are not against him. I don't like many things he believes about the Bible. All denonimations don't agree also. 45,000 Evangelical Churches, 30 million people believed in Ted Haggard their president, but he was found to be bi-sexual. That is worse that Obama's beliefs according to Romans 1. God turned those who rejected God into homosexuals. Obama like Joseph is a higher power ordained of God. Becareful of damnation. If you are a Christian you won't lose your salvation because of your beliefs either. There are many false prophets and teachers of error in the Church. Paul warned us in Scripture crying for 3 days. There are leaders in the Church that are abominations. Judgment begins in the house of the Lord.
Again pray for those that deceitfully use you, love your enemies and it will be like pouring coals on thier heads, bless and curse not, vengance is mine saith the Lord. Even Joseph forgave his brothers who sold him into slavery saying it was God's will. Obama is not the first President who represented all Americans not just Christians. We have freedom of all religions in this Country. Our government has never been a Theocracy, it is a Rebublic.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/17/2008 10:01:25 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
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Ok, now you're getting points. You are right, be watchful, but follow the word. We must follow Ro 13:1. But be watchful and remember, if he tells us to do something that is contrary to the word, then as Peter had said in Acts, we must obey the Word of God and not him. Be watchful, be watchful, be watchful!!!
quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
Can you not see Obama, really see who he is? And if not why?
Sure I do. He represents a lot of present day thinking in America. The Church is just as guilty, they always follow the ways of the world instead of sound doctrine. The Bible prophocies that the will be a time when people won't hold to sound doctrine. It will only get worse. Why God puts people like him in charge of governments I don't know. But we have to obey Scripture and heed to Romans 13:1. No matter what our opinions may be or differ. God is ultimately in control even from the beginning. We all have fallen short of the glory of God. We all still sin. Thank God Jesus paid for all of the sins of believers. You said you do not know if he is Christian or not. Why judge him? For there is there no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. If the Spirit dwells in you you walk after the Spirit. Paul said he became all things that perhaps he may save some.
In light of Ted Haggard and other Church leaders I don't think Christians have much Spiritual discernment. Perhaps the gifts of the Spirit aren't operating in Church anymore. I know much word isn't being taught there. The members refuse to go to Bible College or Seminary where the teachers are. When they come to Churches only a few attend. If the Church was more discerning perhaps would could get Godly men to run and get elected to public office. Now they have professionals to teach they how to be effective in front of the camera and in public. I saw on the history channel where Hillary Clinton was a submissive Presidental wife and was transformed to become an agressive power house to run for Senate and President. They showed before and after videos and identified her methodology. They said Obama was natural and sounded like a Baptist Preacher.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/17/2008 11:48:55 PM
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chaplainwinston
Posts: 83
Joined: 7/31/2006
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quote:
I want to be able to pray for my president that he will accept me and my beliefs. It also worries me that other christians don't seem to care that he might, and I say might, take their beliefs from them. But each his own. :) In other words, I need to know where I stand. If he tries to sneak in and snatch my beliefs, then I want to slap his hands. capise?
Capise. No one can take your beliefs away. Even if they change the constitution. We have freedom of religion in this country. It was the reason it was formed. I don't see him trying to take ours away, but he may be trying to convince use to accept his. A lot of Churches accept homosexuality. That is where the real danger is. They don't teach sound doctrine and lead people astray! They have taken Christianity out of our schools so Church and Bible colleges are the only place you can get it. It is a responsibility that Churches are failing. According to prophecy the Church is supposed to become aspostate. Unbelieving. Obama is not a Church leader. Many people feel that the devil is in the Church, now more than ever.
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Mark 13:14-20 (KJV)
Homosexuals are called abominations in the Bible. Obama, many Church leaders and many others support them. Look what they did to the Catholic Church. Look what they are trying to do to marraige. The Church is being attacked from within and without. Those who supported homosexuals in Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed also, like Lots wife they had no heart for God. Obama, Hillary, and Mccain are either for or nuetral on this issue. Do we have any Joseph like or other people in the Bible that are politians? Are ther fewer Church leaders that are either? How can we trust the Church leaders or our government spiritually these days?
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 5:39:17 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 630
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
Capise. No one can take your beliefs away. Even if they change the constitution. We have freedom of religion in this country.
If we start changing the constitution will we still have our freedoms?
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 9:40:42 AM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 255
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
After watching MSNBC's special on The People's Temple and Jim Jones, this weekend, that's what alot of it reminds me of. Not Obama himself, but just the way those who voted for him think he's some kind of savior. But Joseph? Nah.
I can't help but notice how you won't comment on Ted Haggard and other Church leaders like Benny Hinn for example. Are they more like Joseph than Obama? Benny Hinns prophecies never come true.
Up until a few years ago, the only Haggard I knew about, was Merle. So to say these dudes(including Hinn) are "church leaders" is comical. They are more like Simon the Sorcerer. There is only one "leader" of the Church, and he's the Cornerstone of it. it's a two tiered managment system. 
_____________________________
"Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master" - Sallust
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 4:45:34 PM
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chaplainwinston
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So Obama is like Joseph according to Romans 13. He is also like Joseph in that his people were enslaved in America and one of his people rose to the highest office in America. Joseph was enslaved and rose to the highest office in Egypt, Africa and then his people were enslaved.
8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph. 9 And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we: 10 Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land. 11 Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses. 12 But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel. 13 And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour: 14 And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigour.
Ex 1:8-14 (KJV)
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 5:04:57 PM
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ta_mosquito
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From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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I still don't see it, Chaplain. First, Obama himself wasn't enslaved; slavery ended about 150 years ago. It's much more remarkable and miraculous for someone who IS a slave to rise up to the second highest power of the land as Joseph did than for one who happens to be of a similar color to the slaves of 150 years ago to become president now. There might be a small, minute, TINY resemblance, but nowhere near the parallel you're trying to draw.
Second, I don't understand what you're saying about Romans 13. What does our submitting to the governing authorities have to do with Joseph and thus (in your mind) Obama?
_____________________________
Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 5:23:38 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2237
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
After watching MSNBC's special on The People's Temple and Jim Jones, this weekend, that's what alot of it reminds me of. Not Obama himself, but just the way those who voted for him think he's some kind of savior. But Joseph? Nah.
I can't help but notice how you won't comment on Ted Haggard and other Church leaders like Benny Hinn for example. Are they more like Joseph than Obama? Benny Hinns prophecies never come true.
You haven't made it to the theology forum I gather. There's a lot of discussion on the teachings of Benny Hinn and there was one for Ted Haggard that may still be in the archives from when he was outed.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 5:35:17 PM
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rcjames
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Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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I would like to change my position that Obama is not a "Type" of Joseph.
After due consideration to all the facts I do agree that Obama does represent a type of
"Joseph Stalin", if not an exact replica.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 5:41:21 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2502
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
So Obama is like Joseph according to Romans 13. He is also like Joseph in that his people were enslaved in America and one of his people rose to the highest office in America. Joseph was enslaved and rose to the highest office in Egypt, Africa and then his people were enslaved.
8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph. 9 And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we: 10 Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land. 11 Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses. 12 But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel. 13 And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour: 14 And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigour.
Ex 1:8-14 (KJV)
Again ….you are comparing a principal that has been redeemed in Christ and if you are comparing this to the blacks in America >>>v12 But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew.
It is obvious you are still raising radial concepts; because you keep raising slavery…
come on
…it stands out like a sore thumb
….you are comparing American slaves as still being in captivity in America with Israel’s captivity in Egypt and America as a type of sin… very Islamic  …Great Satan!!
.... based on 1 reason ...that has nothing to with Israel or Joseph
…..because you can not find one instance in the scriptures where Joseph did not forgive his captures and even his brothers who sold him into slavery...because Joseph worships’ ...the God of his fathers… who are Abraham Isaac and Jacob> his father.
You keep raising the slavery issue for the mere reason that by suggesting it in reflection to the multiplication of the black mindset... by that same manipulation as being slaves in captivity in America… is as Israel was in Egypt
…. that radical concept comes from the black church mixed with the Islamic heresies and is that when that motif is spoken… it raises vengeance… not forgiveness,
And again like I said.... Joseph forgave... the examples you keep comparing Obama to and raising up…. is revenge.
Therefore Obama is no way close to a Joseph; because Joseph is a freeman (spiritually)
And Black Islamism in their own minds (flesh) thinks they... are…
And we all know what happed to Pharaohs army because of revenge
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 5:42:18 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1017
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
He is also like Joseph in that his people were enslaved in America and one of his people rose to the highest office in America.
Maybe you misunderstood Obama's bio. His people (the black ones) came from Kenya and were never slaves in America... If anything at all, his people (the black ones) escorted the slaves aboard the ships to America and remained safe and free in Kenya.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 5:48:13 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2502
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
I still don't see it, Chaplain. First, Obama himself wasn't enslaved; slavery ended about 150 years ago. It's much more remarkable and miraculous for someone who IS a slave to rise up to the second highest power of the land as Joseph did than for one who happens to be of a similar color to the slaves of 150 years ago to become president now. There might be a small, minute, TINY resemblance, but nowhere near the parallel you're trying to draw.
Second, I don't understand what you're saying about Romans 13.
What does our submitting to the governing authorities have to do with Joseph and thus (in your mind) Obama?
the "governing" authorities = Allah!!!
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 5:50:42 PM
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chaplainwinston
Posts: 83
Joined: 7/31/2006
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quote:
Second, I don't understand what you're saying about Romans 13. What does our submitting to the governing authorities have to do with Joseph and thus (in your mind) Obama?
Romans 13 says that government leaders are ordained of God. Both Joseph and Obama were and are government leaders.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 5:52:21 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1017
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
Second, I don't understand what you're saying about Romans 13. What does our submitting to the governing authorities have to do with Joseph and thus (in your mind) Obama?
Romans 13 says that government leaders are ordained of God. Both Joseph and Obama were and are government leaders.
So were Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 5:54:08 PM
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chaplainwinston
Posts: 83
Joined: 7/31/2006
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quote:
I would like to change my position that Obama is not a "Type" of Joseph.
After due consideration to all the facts I do agree that Obama does represent a type of
"Joseph Stalin", if not an exact replica.
Thanks
Joseph Stalin killed 20 to 40 million people. Obama is not guilty of that. Americans killed millions of Africans during the slave trade. They were more like Joseph Stalin.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 5:55:10 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 630
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
Second, I don't understand what you're saying about Romans 13. What does our submitting to the governing authorities have to do with Joseph and thus (in your mind) Obama?
Romans 13 says that government leaders are ordained of God. Both Joseph and Obama were and are government leaders.
but nowhere does it tell us to compromise our beliefs in order to submit to a leader. And Obama is so far from being Joseph as we have made abundantly clear.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 5:56:47 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 630
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
Joseph Stalin killed 20 to 40 million people. Obama is not guilty of that. Americans killed millions of Africans during the slave trade. They were more like Joseph Stalin.
Last i checked Obama just came to power so judging whether he will do any damage is not yet valid, well unless you are an unborn American then you may have something to fear.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 6:01:33 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1017
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
Americans killed millions of Africans during the slave trade. They were more like Joseph Stalin.
I don't believe that number or even close to it. Prove it.
It would be extremely stupid for a slave trader to kill his "cargo". They may have been cruel but I have strong doubts that they were that stupid.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 6:03:26 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11451
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
Second, I don't understand what you're saying about Romans 13. What does our submitting to the governing authorities have to do with Joseph and thus (in your mind) Obama?
Romans 13 says that government leaders are ordained of God. Both Joseph and Obama were and are government leaders.
Oh, okay. So every president in America's history is like Joseph in this regard!
_____________________________
Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/18/2008 6:07:37 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2237
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
I would like to change my position that Obama is not a "Type" of Joseph.
After due consideration to all the facts I do agree that Obama does represent a type of
"Joseph Stalin", if not an exact replica.
Thanks
Joseph Stalin killed 20 to 40 million people. Obama is not guilty of that. Americans killed millions of Africans during the slave trade. They were more like Joseph Stalin.
Bill Ayers & Friends: Kill 25 MILLION Americans
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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