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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 4:55:00 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1212
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
My friend the truth is that the Bible is spiritual in nature and can only be understood and believed by those whose minds have been quickened by the Spirit of God. As Anselm said..."faith must precede knowledge"
Ok if this is true, what evidence do you have that this is true? Just because you believe its true it not an answer. If your saying that no one can believe in the Bible unless the ghost comes to them an makes them believe, then yeah, that sounds nuts.
I have no problem with it sounding nuts, in fact, I rather enjoy it...
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14
Apparently, God enjoys a good joke. 
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 4:57:40 PM
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11arrows
Posts: 39
Joined: 11/14/2008
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[
[/quote]
Treat the Gospels just like you would any other historical document. Subject it to the same criteria. Treat it just like Ceasar's Gallic Wars, Josephus' Jewish Wars, or Tacitus' Annals of Imperial Rome.
If you accept them as generally accurate, on what basis would you discount the claims/reliability of the Gospels?
[/quote]
This is yet one of the very poor logical points Christians use that is obviously false to anyone with any scope of history and how our scholars except historical documents.
Firsrt off, historians NEVER accept historical documents that contain super natural events. So to say they take most historical documents as true with little evidence, so they should do the same with the bible is a ridiculous point. There are were writings that claimed Julius Caesar was born of a virgin birth. No scholars take this seriously. We have millions of ancient manuscript outside the Bible claiming super natural event. No historians take these seriously.
Logic dictates, if an ancient writing has supernatural events, we obviously scrutinize them more heavily and look for additional information to back up these claims. We don't take super natural claims on face value under ANY circumstance. Thats why scholars don't believe in Zeus or Horus, or any of the gods that predate Christ in which we have lots of historical documents mentioning them.
So this entire argument is entirely fallacious.
Now, the fact that you know Josephus is a forgery, (or "interpolation" if that word makes you feel better about the lies of the early Church fathers) then why do Christians still use it? I mean if there's all this evidence Jesus actually lived, why is the first thing Christians mention a known forgery? If I had a court case, and I had ton of evidence on my side, I would never put a known forger on the stand under any circumstances. Even If I believe part of his testimony was true and only part is a lie. So why do Christians not only use Josephus but use him first and almost exclusively? Because they know they don't have any better evidence.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:04:41 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
Because they know they don't have any better evidence.
Well here is your clue 11arrows, it is called faith; not evidence.
Everyone gets a dose of faith, some use it to believe in God and go to Heaven.
Sone waste it and look for evidence and go to hell.
Thsnka
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:04:57 PM
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11arrows
Posts: 39
Joined: 11/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
Ok 11arrows, I have a few questions, and if these have been pointed out and answered somewhere in this post, and I have overlooked them, then I apologize.
Your title of this thread says: "Former Christian has questions about the Bible."
Former? So you are claiming that at one time you were a Christian?
I have NEVER known a Christian, that has claimed to be a Christian, and then need EVIDENCE of Jesus Christ. Can you explain that please?
You state you were a Christian for "30 years." The title of this thread, your claim of what you "were" and you needing evidence, just don't all line up to me.
This is an easy one. for 30 years, like most Christians, I blindly believe what my parents, friends, and society told me with questioning. Once I hit my 30's, it dawned on my that perhaps believing in something blindly with not a shred of evidence to back it up might not be the most intellectual way to go through lie. So I began researching all about the bible, read at least a hundred books on the subject, and read the bible right through 5 times, and twice on audio.
After this I obviously had a lot of questions. Which brings me here.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:05:30 PM
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Little_1
Posts: 1589
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Hi again 11arrows
I have experienced the truth of Romans 10:13, i.e. "whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" and this is how I know I believe God's Word.
However if you read the verses after verse 13, I think you may find the reason why so many people are discouraged and disolusioned in their search to know if there is a God; also why so many of their questions go unanswered.
[i]Romans 10: 13-18
13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“ How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, have they not heard?
You see, some people don't want to 'hear' what God has to say to them - they just want the signs and wonders (miracles) to prove He exists. God is not interested in such - He has already given them signs and wonders in the beautiful creation around them. God is interested in them wanting to hear His Word - then He will give them spiritual sight to see (and this is a miracle because He can make the 'spritually blind' to see) but first things first with God!
When I called out to the Lord to show me if He was real (and I'm sure so many other Christians onsite will agree with me), I did so because I wanted His help in my life and this meant I was willing to listen to what He had to say to me - I was desperate to know Him and nothing else; I didn't go looking for miracles and signs, but rather the Lord's love, help and forgiveness.
Perhaps you need to ask what the motives are behind your questions, i.e. do you sincerely want a relationship with the Lord Jesus or do you just want proof of His existence? If it is the latter then you will always question.
< Message edited by Little_1 -- 11/15/2008 5:20:07 PM >
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:07:41 PM
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AbbyGrace
Posts: 660
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
Ok 11arrows, I have a few questions, and if these have been pointed out and answered somewhere in this post, and I have overlooked them, then I apologize.
Your title of this thread says: "Former Christian has questions about the Bible."
Former? So you are claiming that at one time you were a Christian?
I have NEVER known a Christian, that has claimed to be a Christian, and then need EVIDENCE of Jesus Christ. Can you explain that please?
You state you were a Christian for "30 years." The title of this thread, your claim of what you "were" and you needing evidence, just don't all line up to me.
This is an easy one. for 30 years, like most Christians, I blindly believe what my parents, friends, and society told me with questioning. Once I hit my 30's, it dawned on my that perhaps believing in something blindly with not a shred of evidence to back it up might not be the most intellectual way to go through lie. So I began researching all about the bible, read at least a hundred books on the subject, and read the bible right through 5 times, and twice on audio.
After this I obviously had a lot of questions. Which brings me here.
Well, I do not believe it brought you here, I think you have been here before, and NO ONE will be able to explain this to you with logic (which means relating to) because its spiritual (consisting of).
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." 
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:10:21 PM
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11arrows
Posts: 39
Joined: 11/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
Because they know they don't have any better evidence.
Well here is your clue 11arrows, it is called faith; not evidence.
Everyone gets a dose of faith, some use it to believe in God and go to Heaven.
Sone waste it and look for evidence and go to hell.
Thsnka
RC
So what your saying is, If I don't believe in something I have been given no evidence for, I will be tortured for eternity?
Wow sounds like a really good plan Gods set in place doesn't it?
Is it me or could a kindergartner have though of a better plan than this. I can just imagine God in heaven. "I know what I'm gonna do! I'm gonna create these beings, I'll call the human. Then I'm going to give them this book, but I'm not going to give them any evidence at all this book is true. In fact I'm gonna do the opposite and give them lots and lots of evidence its not true. Then, if they don't blindly believe it based on absolutely no evidence at all, Im going to torture them for eternity. I'm brilliant!"
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:15:51 PM
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11arrows
Posts: 39
Joined: 11/14/2008
Status: offline
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[/quote]
This is an easy one. for 30 years, like most Christians, I blindly believe what my parents, friends, and society told me with questioning. Once I hit my 30's, it dawned on my that perhaps believing in something blindly with not a shred of evidence to back it up might not be the most intellectual way to go through lie. So I began researching all about the bible, read at least a hundred books on the subject, and read the bible right through 5 times, and twice on audio.
After this I obviously had a lot of questions. Which brings me here.
[/quote]
Well, I do not believe it brought you here, I think you have been here before, and NO ONE will be able to explain this to you with logic (which means relating to) because its spiritual (consisting of).
[/quote]
Why would God give us logical minds if he did not want us to use them? If God setting us up to fail? I mean obviously he created our minds in a very specific way. Our minds work off logic. We reason the facts we have in front of them and then make educated, logical decisions based on this info.
So why would God create us with logical minds and then create a religion that doesnt require logic? Sounds to me like he must want us to burn.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:18:12 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2502
Joined: 4/12/2005
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RE Former Christian has questions about the Bible
quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
Hi All,
I was a Christian for 30 years, but I always had nagging, basic questions. As I began asking people these very basic, almost child like questions, I found that instead of wanting to be helpful and explain things to me in a logical way, they just got mad at me. Eventually this is what caused me to leave Christianity to begin with.
But I still have questions. I am not dogmatic in my beliefs at all. I will give up what I believe and accept your views in a heart beat as long as the information you give me is more logical then the information I already have. In fact, in my opinion, this is the stance that anyone who truly wishes to call themselves an intellectual must take.
So I thought I might come to the most popular internet Christian forum I could find and see if I could get these very basic questions answered, or if people would get mad that I dare ask them to begin with.
My first question is "Why do you believe the Bible is True?"
quote:
this is the stance that anyone who truly wishes to call themselves an intellectual must take.
There is no such approach...the scriptures are spiritually discerned, the principals therein are supernatural... Not intellectual
Generally those who receive nothing from the Father take the intellectual routes
And no law can legislate that….
Given the state of current intellectualisms 
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:21:26 PM
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AbbyGrace
Posts: 660
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
This is an easy one. for 30 years, like most Christians, I blindly believe what my parents, friends, and society told me with questioning. Once I hit my 30's, it dawned on my that perhaps believing in something blindly with not a shred of evidence to back it up might not be the most intellectual way to go through lie. So I began researching all about the bible, read at least a hundred books on the subject, and read the bible right through 5 times, and twice on audio.
After this I obviously had a lot of questions. Which brings me here.
Well, I do not believe it brought you here, I think you have been here before, and NO ONE will be able to explain this to you with logic (which means relating to) because its spiritual (consisting of).
Why would God give us logical minds if he did not want us to use them? If God setting us up to fail? I mean obviously he created our minds in a very specific way. Our minds work off logic. We reason the facts we have in front of them and then make educated, logical decisions based on this info.
So why would God create us with logical minds and then create a religion that doesnt require logic? Sounds to me like he must want us to burn.
This brings up another interesting question for me.....you state "your parents." Parents are people that we love and trust....so are you saying that you have parents that have fed you lies about Christ? You said yourself, they brought you up in church, now why would loving parents, whom we are suppose to trust, do a thing like this to you? I think I would be asking them these questions, since they obviously had you in church.
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:28:29 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
So what your saying is, If I don't believe in something I have been given no evidence for, I will be tortured for eternity?
Scripture is very very plain about the torture in etrenity thingy.
Salvatin is offered to everyone, sufficient faith is given to everyone to believe and be saved; sadly many will love their sin more than salvation and therefore place themselves in hell for all eternity.
(Joh 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Joh 3:17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
(Joh 3:18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Joh 3:19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:32:27 PM
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bravjim
Posts: 395
Joined: 10/8/2008
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I believe the word of God by faith, finding truth that I could not find if I was putting my trust in intellectualism. The just shall live by faith; by faith we can find the answer to all of life's questions in God's word. It is a book on morality, and you are hard pressed to find anything that contradicts morality from the word of God. It warns against sin and states that there is/are negative consequences to sin, and this is proven throughout history as well as throughout individual's lives.
There are hundreds, if not thousands of prophecies that have been fulfilled. It is not just in Jesus Christ, but also prophecies of God's judgement that have come true in the old testament. For example, 200 years prior to the Babylonian captivity, Jeremiah predicted that it would be the Babylonians who God would use to judge the nation of Israel, and this cannot be contradicted by any kind of worldly wisdom. Every one knows that Israel was invaded and conquered by Babylon. Even before that, in the book of Deuteronomy, God predicted that His people would turn away from Him and go after the other Gods of their neighbors. When they entered into the land of Israel, that is exactly what happened. There are so many prophecies that were fulfilled even before Christ came, and His birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection was more fulfillment of those prophecies. How do you explain the prophecies that came true, such as how they gambled for His clothes?
Your question is why do I believe the bible is true. It is not my job to convince you of the truth. It is my job to tell you the truth; it is your choice whether you believe it or not. How about I turn this around on you and ask you to prove that it is false. Can you do it? It comes from faith, and without faith you cannot come to understand the word of God. It is written by a Spirit, and is discerned spiritually. You mock those who use the Holy Spirit as evidence. How can you mock who you do not know? Because you cannot know Him without faith. You seek to understand logically, but logic cannot understand what is spiritual.
There is a passage in the bible, I believe it is 1 Cor. chapter 2, that states For no one can know the things of a man except the spirit of that man which is in Him, even so no man can know the things of God except the Spirit of God. You must be born again in Spirit, receiving His Spirit in order to know the things of God. Whatever your reasons for rejecting God, it is all worldly wisdom. But God's wisdom is above man's ability to understand without the help of the Holy Spirit to aid him in knowing those things.
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:33:14 PM
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Little_1
Posts: 1589
Status: offline
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Dear 11arrows
If you sincerely want a relationship with the Lord Jesus, then please say so and we will all gladly pray for you.
If it is just proof of God's existence you are seeking - no words anyone gives here onsite here are going to help you because as LocalGypsy so rightly said, we are dealing with the supernatural things of God i.e. the Scriptures are 'spiritually discerned'.
Please say what it is you wish, i.e. 'relationship' or 'proof'.
If relationship - there is hope for you; however, if you are searching for proof that God exists you may be searching a very long and disappointing time.
I sincerely hope you are seeking relationship. However, for this to be so, you must realise that you have a need of the Lord in your life.
11arrows, I don't want to say "I'm right and you're wrong" - trying to prove a point does not matter in the least to me. I wish you God's very best which is such a blessed life and I sincerely hope you do come to know and love the Lord. He is the greatest blessing in my life and my greatest and sincerest friend and I would love others to share in this tremendous blessing.
All the best
Little_1
< Message edited by Little_1 -- 11/15/2008 5:44:23 PM >
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:34:19 PM
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kmangel
Posts: 443
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
Why are you guys so afraid to be specific? You all keep telling my to go ask someone else via their book. I don't want to ask Josh McDowell, Ive read his books. Im asking you. If you don't know, just admit you don't know.
I for one did not tell you to seek out someone's book. I told you my personal story about how God became real to me.
One thing that I've discovered--and it was borne out in my life--is that we must come to a point in our life where we need God. In our culture that can be hard. We are very self sufficient in our culture. To come to that place where we are not able to make something happen in our own power can take many years to get to. It did with me, anyway. Perhaps you just don't really need God to be real to you yet--or the Bible to be true to you yet. Have you considered that? Asking God to put in your heart a desire for Him to be real to you?
_____________________________
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
--Mark Twain
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:35:51 PM
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AbbyGrace
Posts: 660
Status: offline
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And something else that I have never been able to get past, because I have dealt with these questions before, and not strangers, but friends, and this can go into a debate, and end up going in circles.
I know without a doubt, that Jesus Christ is real, and He is alive and well, and He did, indeed die on the cross for our sins! But with me saying that, to those who choose not to believe, lets just say the Bible is not true, it holds no truth, its all made up...what have we done wrong by believing? The Bible teaches us to love, to do right by others, to forgive, to be there for others....to live a life in peace and joy......along with alot more, but it all points to doing right in this world. But what if it isnt true, what have we lost, by doing right? NOT ONE THING MY FRIEND!!! But if it holds truth, like we all believe here, then we have been PROMISED ETERNITY IN HEAVEN WITH OUR SAVIOR.
So you tell me, whats wrong with that?
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:39:53 PM
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bravjim
Posts: 395
Joined: 10/8/2008
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For thousands of years the world believed the world was flat. We now know that it is round. Because they believed it was flat didn't make it true. Likewise, not beleiving in the bible doesn't make it false. There is more evidence to show God is who He says He is in His word than there is evidence to show otherwise.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
Because they know they don't have any better evidence.
Well here is your clue 11arrows, it is called faith; not evidence.
Everyone gets a dose of faith, some use it to believe in God and go to Heaven.
Sone waste it and look for evidence and go to hell.
Thsnka
RC
So what your saying is, If I don't believe in something I have been given no evidence for, I will be tortured for eternity?
Wow sounds like a really good plan Gods set in place doesn't it?
Is it me or could a kindergartner have though of a better plan than this. I can just imagine God in heaven. "I know what I'm gonna do! I'm gonna create these beings, I'll call the human. Then I'm going to give them this book, but I'm not going to give them any evidence at all this book is true. In fact I'm gonna do the opposite and give them lots and lots of evidence its not true. Then, if they don't blindly believe it based on absolutely no evidence at all, Im going to torture them for eternity. I'm brilliant!"
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:54:25 PM
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11arrows
Posts: 39
Joined: 11/14/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bravjim
There are hundreds, if not thousands of prophecies that have been fulfilled.
Ok fine. What are they? Dont explain to me what the Bible said. Post the verse of the bible of a prophecy that is precise and clear and could not have been fulfilled any other way but to have been from God. If there are thousands, providing one specific example, with verse should be a snap. Why won't anyone just do this? I've asked and asked? If this stuff exists, just post it already. This is like the twilight zone.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 5:58:00 PM
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lightbeamrider
Posts: 138
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightbeamrider
The evidence is there...don't come on to Christian sites and try to sell that swill u rejected Christ because the evidence is simply not there.
ok, if the evidence is their, what is it? I have read every single book mentioned here, and have independently researched the claims in each of these books. Have You? People stop telling me the evidence is their and I should go find it. I have looked, I didn't find it, so if your so convinced it exists, just tell me, specifically. Don't pawn me off on some author you all really admire. If you really believe the bible is the word of God, you should know ALL about it. You should know every details on why you believe its true and the evidence to back it up. I mean what person in their right mind would believe the bible is truly the word of the one and only god, and then not turn around and learn everything they can about it in detail? It seems like every single person on here has no idea what they are talking about, and instead wishes to pass the buck to Josh McDowell so he can explain it to me.
Look 11 if the writings of McDowell or other Christian apologists cannot convince u then there is little hope i can make a difference. According to scripture, not me, u are dead and blind a vessel of wrath and on and on. Like most unbelievers u despise the God as described in Scripture whereas we as Christians embrace Him. Basically 11 what i will tell u is ur blood is on ur own head. U have a basic understanding of what it is all about and have chose to reject Christ as ur Savior. U or any other person does not reject Christ based on the historical evidence ...it is there ..u reject Christ based on a philosophical assumption. The resurrection of Christ is impossible in the antisupernatural box u have placed urself in. Part of the reason i have such a strong conviction it is all true is because scripture describes folks like u right down to a tee. U certainly did get a lot of responses to ur post. If u dont believe anything else, believe this ...these people here do not wish hell on anyone. I would not wish it on my worst enemy. They care deeply for u even though they do not know who u are or what u are all about. U may despise us and our beliefs but there is little u can do to stop us from caring deeply for u or anyone in our lives here who are, according to scripture, lost. Please forgive me if i came across as harsh. I get frustrated easily at my apparent powerlessness to convince people like u what is so obvious to me. God bless u 11arrows.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 6:04:07 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6187
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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11arrows
Maybe in all the flurry of posts, you didn't see my questions to you?
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
I was raised in the Assemblies of God Church in the deep south. I even attended an ACE Christian school as well as several Christian private schools. Not sure what more background you need, but feel free to ask for specifics.
Thanks for giving us this general background info, but I'm more interested in when you actually gave your life to Christ, invited Him in and started to have a relationship with Him. How old were you, did you feel under any pressure, were you encouraged to question etc?
_____________________________
"Manda is right"
mvic, January 2009
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 6:05:54 PM
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11arrows
Posts: 39
Joined: 11/14/2008
Status: offline
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[/quote]
Look 11 if the writings of McDowell or other Christian apologists cannot convince u then there is little hope i can make a difference. According to scripture, not me, u are dead and blind a vessel of wrath and on and on. Like most unbelievers u despise the God as described in Scripture whereas we as Christians embrace Him. Basically 11 what i will tell u is ur blood is on ur own head. U have a basic understanding of what it is all about and have chose to reject Christ as ur Savior. U or any other person does not reject Christ based on the historical evidence ...it is there ..u reject Christ based on a philosophical assumption. The resurrection of Christ is impossible in the antisupernatural box u have placed urself in. Part of the reason i have such a strong conviction it is all true is because scripture describes folks like u right down to a tee. U certainly did get a lot of responses to ur post. If u dont believe anything else, believe this ...these people here do not wish hell on anyone. I would not wish it on my worst enemy. They care deeply for u even though they do not know who u are or what u are all about. U may despise us and our beliefs but there is little u can do to stop us from caring deeply for u or anyone in our lives here who are, according to scripture, lost. Please forgive me if i came across as harsh. I get frustrated easily at my apparent powerlessness to convince people like u what is so obvious to me. God bless u 11arrows.
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I dont hate anyone here. I simply had questions about evidence. I was told by many here the evidence exists. Yet not a single person has bothered to give me any specific examples. Isn't that odd to you guys? That person after person can swear that tons of evidence exists but not a single one can actually list a single example? Ive read Mcdowell, and anyone who has independently looked up his claims already knows what I know. So if he has said something irrefutable that I have missed, simply tell me.
simply put, if all this massive amounts of evidence exists, why won't a single person list a single specific example?
and if the evidence doesn't exist, stop saying it does. just admit that the bible must be taken on blind faith and be done with it. Which will lead me to my next question, why would a rational person believe anything without evidence to back it up?
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 6:09:00 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6187
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
This is an easy one. for 30 years, like most Christians, I blindly believe what my parents, friends, and society told me with questioning.
What's your evidence for thinking this? It's certainly not true for me, or any of the Christians I know.
And if you're such a logical person, how come you didn't question before? I have two logical intelligent teens, and even though their dad and I are Christians, they have always asked LOADS of questions, we've encouraged it.
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Once I hit my 30's
Did anything major/significant happen in your life when you hit your 30's that sort of coincided with this questioning?
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it dawned on my that perhaps believing in something blindly with not a shred of evidence
No evidence? I have plenty of evidence. It's subjective and experiential, but it's evidence all the same.
_____________________________
"Manda is right"
mvic, January 2009
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/15/2008 6:10:12 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6187
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
Which will lead me to my next question, why wou | | |
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