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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/18/2008 5:09:53 PM
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Him4all
Posts: 479
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
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Bluethread,
quote:
As has been pointed out the lake of fire is prepared for the adversary and his angels. I believe those who die in their sins will be burnt up like chaff, as the Scriptures say. Now chaff burns quickly and completely.
Agreed with your post but would like to comment on one part.
There is a saying that basically says: pretext often determines ones context. Unfortunately that is the case in considering sinners as chaff. The context of the only two verses dealing with chaff in the NT, were both talking about what happens following the baptism of the "Holy Spirit and fire" by Jesus. It is part of the 'good news' of the gospel actually. Chaff is the husk which clings to the wheat during the growing process. That which clung so tightly to us in life will be burned...either now in our obedience...or later in His soveringty. I like the RSV best for this concept
HEB 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us,
So scripturally people aren't chaff they're the kernel of wheat. Along these same lines though, I once had to correct an elder in my church who was making the excuse for a 'mini exodus' of brethren from our church. He said well sometimes you just have to thin the weeds out. I countered with, I fellowshipped with those people for years...and they weren't weeds...they were Christians. He shut his mouth and thought about what I said...or should I say...what he said? Just another excuse for a faulty belief system I think.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/19/2008 9:12:14 AM
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InHisService9901
Posts: 36
Joined: 11/15/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: mattj4792
This really doesn't make much sense to me....
If God loves us so much, how can he possibly sentence anyone to an eternity of pain and misery?
Your assumption is incorrect;
(Joh 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Joh 3:17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
(Joh 3:18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Joh 3:19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
One is already condemned to Hell for eternity, Through the love of God and the Sacrifice of Christ that one is offered a way of escape.
If one chooses not to Believe in Jesus as the Son of God and Savior it is becalus they love their sins more than they do God (Vs. 19)
So If one ends up in hell then they sentenced themselves to such an end.
Thanks
RC
Amen Preacher ,amen!
Eze 33:11 Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Isa 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I CALLED ,YE DID NOT ANSWER ; when I SPAKE , YE DID NOT HEAR ; but DID EVIL BEFORE MY EYES , and DID CHOOSE [that] wherein I DELIGHTED NOT
why does the sinner not heed the call to repent and be saved?
why when salvation is free and clear to all who will repent of their sins trusting in the shed blood of the Lamb, Jesus Christ
lets go to the Word
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because
he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil
hateth the light,
neither cometh to the light,
lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Its simple isnt it, those who choose to serve sin and reject the mercy and grace of Almighty God will pay a price for it, and that is a God given fact from His Holy Word.
Be not deceived God is not mocked for whatsoever a man soweth that shall He also reap.
Whosoever was not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire
And Jesus answered him saying
YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN TO ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD
And if you are one who has thus far rejected the love mercy and grace of Almighty God, may I encourage you to repent of your sins trusting n Christ the Saviour before it is eternally to late for your lost soul
Not one of us are promised another day , another breath
and hell is full of those who believed they would see one
Full of those who did not believe God's Word
IT IS FULL PEOPLE
The Word of God says hell enlargeth herself daily
why?
because thousands upon thousands are finding themselves each day in that place of torment
and how sad that is, that they chose not to believe the Lord and obey His Word and be saved
it is to late for them, but if you are here reading this message you need to heed the call of God to repent of your sins and turn to His Son the Saviour, Jesus Christ
God does not promise me, you or anyone else another day , another breath,
For His Word declares
Boast NOT thyself of tomorrow for you know not what a day may bring forth
It is APPOINTED unto man once to die and after this the JUDGMENT
Precious soul it is our earnest prayer and hope that you would obey the Word of the Lord before it is eternally to late
God Almighty loves you, gave heavens best that you and i and all might not perish but have everlasting life
and heavens best was His perfect sinless Son to go to a cruel and rugged cross
take my sins , and your sins and the sins of this world and pay for each and everyone
For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him would not perish but have everlasting life
And He expressed that great love in His unfailing Word and proved it upon an old rugged cross
For God so loved!
Lost soul if the Lord is speaking to your heart you need to obey Him,you may never get another opportunity to be saved..I do not know when your appointed time is ,only the Lord knows that..
Repent of your sins and trust in His finished work, that He died on the cross that you be forgiven
arose that you would be justified
please do not leave this world without Him
please dont
i will post a prayer in hopes that it might be of help to you in someway
Dear Heavenly Father, I recognize that I am a sinner and I ask Father that you would forgive me of all of my sins and cleanse me of all unrighteousness, I believe Lord Jesus that you died on the cross for my sins, I believe that you arose the third day according to the scriptures, please come into my heart Lord Jesus and live and be my Saviour, in this your name I do pray amen and amen
He who hath the Son hath life and he who hath not the Son of God, hath not life
God bless
< Message edited by InHisService9901 -- 11/19/2008 9:25:18 AM >
_____________________________
In Christ' Service
Evangelist Smith
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/20/2008 12:44:26 PM
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Rick4Him
Posts: 92
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"For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
Does this support annihilism? If one doesn't believe in Christ does he perish to exist no more therefore not able to live for eternity? I know of the verses that tell us of torment after death. like in Luke 16, but what does it mean to perish and not live eternally if one doesn't believe?
Rick
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/20/2008 1:20:53 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1885
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
but what does it mean to perish and not live eternally if one doesn't believe?
A verse that may help clarify this question is Revelation 2:11. Everyone dies once, but those who do not believe die twice. In a similar way, everyone is born once, but only those who believe experience the second birth.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/20/2008 1:59:03 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1668
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
The context of the only two verses dealing with chaff in the NT, were both talking about what happens following the baptism of the "Holy Spirit and fire" by Jesus.
You are correct. In the prophetic tradition John used chaff as an illustration. Other prophets used the term as a metaphor for the wicked. However, in those passages the chaff is blown away and not burned. It wasn't a matter of pretext but mixed metaphors. Thanks for encouraging me to review these passages and see my error.
quote:
So scripturally people aren't chaff they're the kernel of wheat. Along these same lines though, I once had to correct an elder in my church who was making the excuse for a 'mini exodus' of brethren from our church. He said well sometimes you just have to thin the weeds out. I countered with, I fellowshipped with those people for years...and they weren't weeds...they were Christians. He shut his mouth and thought about what I said...or should I say...what he said? Just another excuse for a faulty belief system I think.
I would not think this was an example of pretext either, but a lack of knowledge regarding the passage. In the analogy we are cautioned about removing the weeds lest we unroot the wheat.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/21/2008 12:04:39 AM
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Him4all
Posts: 479
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Bluethread,
When I mentioned 'pretext' I was refering to those who quickly jump to the conclusion of 'eternal hell' any time they hear a scripture about fire or burning.
I just read a verse tonight which, to me also dispels, always thinking along those same lines of fire/burning being a 'bad' thing.
HEB 1:7 And of the angels He says, "WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE."
quote:
I would not think this was an example of pretext either, but a lack of knowledge regarding the passage. In the analogy we are cautioned about removing the weeds lest we unroot the wheat.
I don't know if I understand what you're specifically refering to with the above quote. Maybe a little more information from me would help. The people who left the church, left because of leadership's attitudes and dealings with them. Many of them were in teaching and ministering positions long before the 'new pastor' came and rocked the boat...so to speak. So, in my opinion they weren't 'weeds'...they indeed were 'wheat' that got rooted out because the new pastor didn't know how to 'disciple' them. I hope this helps shed a little more light on my comment. Does it change what you were thinking with your post? I ask because I couldn't tell if you thought the people who left were 'tares/weeds' or 'wheat'. Or did you mean something all together different?
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/21/2008 11:04:53 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4166
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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How much torture can an Omnicient and Omnipotent God mete out on someone? It is far worse that every human torture ever conceived.
The only reason the person is not instantly destroyed is because God sustains them to endure it all the more.
No escape by "getting used to it." No escape by going insane. Just pure undiluted pain, physical emotional and spiritual forever and ever.
_____________________________
Avatar is DW holding Saphira at her first birthday party and myself holding Louvena at 30 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/21/2008 3:03:07 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1885
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
Oh, and don't forget-- God loves you more than you can possibly imagine.
We have sinned against God. His love is expressed not in ignoring that sin, but in paying for it Himself - through death. If we choose not to accept that payment, that love, then why should God get the blame?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/21/2008 9:10:17 PM
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abraxas
Posts: 333
Joined: 4/8/2008
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quote:
How much torture can an Omnicient and Omnipotent God mete out on someone? It is far worse that every human torture ever conceived.
The only reason the person is not instantly destroyed is because God sustains them to endure it all the more.
No escape by "getting used to it." No escape by going insane. Just pure undiluted pain, physical emotional and spiritual forever and ever.
I'm just shakin my head here.
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/22/2008 2:06:45 AM
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theredhog
Posts: 56
Joined: 9/23/2008
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quote:
How much torture can an Omnicient and Omnipotent God mete out on someone? It is far worse that every human torture ever conceived.
The only reason the person is not instantly destroyed is because God sustains them to endure it all the more.
No escape by "getting used to it." No escape by going insane. Just pure undiluted pain, physical emotional and spiritual forever and ever.
I would go absolutely nuts if I believed that.
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/22/2008 10:58:46 PM
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abraxas
Posts: 333
Joined: 4/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
If hell's "forever" ends, why won't heaven's? We're more than happy to cover over the "forever"s we're uncomfortable with, but when anyone suggests that if that's true, then our time in Heaven won't last forever, the suggestion has (so far, at least) been ignored.
This is a nobrainer MrFribbles. One of them is a punishment, a torture. According to the post by DaveW, God won't let those souls die, or lose their mind, or get used to the unimaginable torture in any way, ever. It's either the idea of an infinite span of punishment for a finite list of crimes that people are questioning, or just the idea of the source of all goodness himself allowing it to continue forever.
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/22/2008 11:02:50 PM
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abraxas
Posts: 333
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
eternal hell is God's gift to recalcitrant human nature.
Isn't it all non-Christians who go to hell? Or is it only recalcitrant people?
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/22/2008 11:50:15 PM
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theredhog
Posts: 56
Joined: 9/23/2008
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Mr Fribbles,
quote:
If hell's "forever" ends, why won't heaven's? We're more than happy to cover over the "forever"s we're uncomfortable with, but when anyone suggests that if that's true, then our time in Heaven won't last forever, the suggestion has (so far, at least) been ignored.
Are we supposed to, endlessly, stay in Heaven? We are to be forever with the Lord but I think that we all wind up here with a new heaven(sky?) and new earth. The "forever" (meaning endless) with the Lord is the plan...1 Cor 15..He reigns until all are in submission to Him. The "everlasting punishment" is correction until the ones being punished, submit to Christ. That "everlasting" punishment is everlasting as was the old covenant was everlasting. As far as they were concerned it was to be everlasting but it only lasted UNTIL the "better" one replaced it. Punishment is "forever" in the sense that it will not relent, it will last day and night, the wrath of God remains on the unbeliever, UNTIL he believes or until every shred of flesh or self is gone and there is nothing left but one who is ready to submit.
The worm does not die as long as there is "flesh" to feed on, and the fire is not quenched until the flesh is burned up. I refer again to Matthew 23. The people condemned to Hell by Jesus were told when they would get out of it.." not UNTIL you say "blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord."
I will ask again, how will some stay in Hell, if Christ is to draw all to Himself? Or, if He is to reign until all are in submission to Him? 
redhog
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/22/2008 11:55:58 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1885
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
Are we supposed to, endlessly, stay in Heaven?
Depends on what you mean by "Heaven". When I use the word, I use it to refer to the entirety of the new creation after this one passes away, not just the new Jerusalem.
quote:
The "everlasting punishment" is correction until the ones being punished, submit to Christ.
Scriptural support?
quote:
I will ask again, how will some stay in Hell, if Christ is to draw all to Himself?
Where does it say Christ will draw every individual person to Himself? Or that, when drawn, they will submit?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/23/2008 12:24:04 AM
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theredhog
Posts: 56
Joined: 9/23/2008
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Mr Fribbles,
quote:
quote:
The "everlasting punishment" is correction until the ones being punished, submit to Christ.
Scriptural support?
Kolasis Strong's Number: 2851
correction, punishment, penalty
Kolasis comes from :
Kolazo Strong's Number: 2849
to lop or prune, as trees and wings to curb, check, restrain to chastise, correct, punishment to cause to be punished
quote:
Where does it say Christ will draw every individual person to Himself? Or that, when drawn, they will submit?
1 Corinthians 15
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
John 12
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
Draw Helkuo Strong's Number: 1670
to draw, drag off metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel
(for brevity sake I did not list all the scriptures this word is used in. But they are very easy to find using good ole Crosswalk.com and the KJV with Strong’s Numbers
All uses of the word indicate a force doing the drawing or moving that is stronger than the thing being moved.
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/23/2008 12:32:36 AM
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AbbyGrace
Posts: 660
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theredhog
Mr Fribbles,
quote:
If hell's "forever" ends, why won't heaven's? We're more than happy to cover over the "forever"s we're uncomfortable with, but when anyone suggests that if that's true, then our time in Heaven won't last forever, the suggestion has (so far, at least) been ignored.
Are we supposed to, endlessly, stay in Heaven? We are to be forever with the Lord but I think that we all wind up here with a new heaven(sky?) and new earth. The "forever" (meaning endless) with the Lord is the plan...1 Cor 15..He reigns until all are in submission to Him. The "everlasting punishment" is correction until the ones being punished, submit to Christ. That "everlasting" punishment is everlasting as was the old covenant was everlasting. As far as they were concerned it was to be everlasting but it only lasted UNTIL the "better" one replaced it. Punishment is "forever" in the sense that it will not relent, it will last day and night, the wrath of God remains on the unbeliever, UNTIL he believes or until every shred of flesh or self is gone and there is nothing left but one who is ready to submit.
The worm does not die as long as there is "flesh" to feed on, and the fire is not quenched until the flesh is burned up. I refer again to Matthew 23. The people condemned to Hell by Jesus were told when they would get out of it.." not UNTIL you say "blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord."
I will ask again, how will some stay in Hell, if Christ is to draw all to Himself? Or, if He is to reign until all are in submission to Him?
redhog
Correct me if Im wrong, but are you saying the ones who are not in Heaven now, the ones who have passed away, and are in hell, still have a chance to repent, and to make it into Heaven....or have I misread this?
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." 
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/23/2008 1:20:35 AM
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theredhog
Posts: 56
Joined: 9/23/2008
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AbbeyGrace,
Because of what the scriptures say, I don't believe they will just have a chance to be with the Lord, I believe they will be with the Lord. It's a near impossible concept to see for those who have never considered it or even heard of such. But, as I see it, for the scriptures to agree with each other, I just don't see how Hell could be endless and the other scriptures about all being drawn to Christ/every tongue confessing Christ/every knee bowing to Christ/, being true at the same time. :)
redhog
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/23/2008 1:35:59 AM
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AbbyGrace
Posts: 660
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theredhog
AbbeyGrace,
Because of what the scriptures say, I don't believe they will just have a chance to be with the Lord, I believe they will be with the Lord. It's a near impossible concept to see for those who have never considered it or even heard of such. But, as I see it, for the scriptures to agree with each other, I just don't see how Hell could be endless and the other scriptures about all being drawn to Christ/every tongue confessing Christ/every knee bowing to Christ/, being true at the same time. :)
redhog
The Bible makes it clear Redhog, that if your name is not written in the Book of Life, you will not enter into the Gates of the Kingdom, that meaning there is only one other place to go......Hell! And it is for eternity, never-ending. And we serve a just God, everyone will hear the gospel. And yes, every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that He is Lord of Lords.
And if your interpretation is correct, then why is there salvation? Why did Christ die for us? This wasnt done so we could live our lives the way we want too. Im not sure I understand how you get your interpretation of Scripture. If you go to John 12:32....He is talking about His eternal Kingdom, for followers, people who serve Him.
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/23/2008 4:40:04 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1885
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
Kolasis Strong's Number: 2851
correction, punishment, penalty
It can mean correction, but it doesn't necessarily mean correction. Greek words often have different connotations depending on context. You can't decide the connotation that fits your view if it doesn't fit the context, and it seems clear that most passages speaking about heaven and hell would use it in a punishment/reward construction. What weight would Christ's words have it He was just saying, "Repent! Or you'll have to be in pain for a little while, but then you'll be in a perfect paradise forever,"?
quote:
1 Corinthians 15
This passage says everything will be under the authority of Christ. It says nothing of every individual eventually entering into heaven.
quote:
John 12
1, He said that to describe His death first and foremost - deriving other teachings out of it would be questionable. Not completely out of line, but questionable. 2, there's nothing there to suggest every single individual. Oftentimes the phrase "all men" is used to denote every nation - that is, the message of the gospel going out to every nation, for some to accept and some to reject. 3, even if it did mean every individual, there's nothing that rules out that some of those who are drawn to Jesus won't reject Him.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/24/2008 7:25:11 AM
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GodsMusic
Posts: 238
Joined: 4/3/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
I believe that hell is indeed for all eternity with no second chance at all.
Absolutley. Anything less is a lie.
The false teaching of it being annilation dilutes and weakens the strong need for salvation as well.
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/24/2008 7:54:28 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4166
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theredhog
I would go absolutely nuts if I believed that. Why?
_____________________________
Avatar is DW holding Saphira at her first birthday party and myself holding Louvena at 30 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/24/2008 10:22:21 AM
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abraxas
Posts: 333
Joined: 4/8/2008
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Why would the idea that God, the source of all that is good, the ultimate Gandalf, "Heavenly Father", "love agape", is the author of the cruelist place imaginable, AND that he would take steps to ensure that everyone there (likely the majority of all his human creations) would not die, lose their mind, or otherwise grow used to the "pure undiluted pain, physical emotional and spiritual", which would go on and on for trillions of years trillions of times over forever?
Yeah really, why?
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/24/2008 11:58:16 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4166
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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He has - in the death and resurrection of His Son.
_____________________________
Avatar is DW holding Saphira at her first birthday party and myself holding Louvena at 30 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/24/2008 12:12:36 PM
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HardKnox
Posts: 448
Joined: 11/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abraxas
Why would the idea that God, the source of all that is good, the ultimate Gandalf, "Heavenly Father", "love agape", is the author of the cruelist place imaginable, AND that he would take steps to ensure that everyone there (likely the majority of all his human creations) would not die, lose their mind, or otherwise grow used to the "pure undiluted pain, physical emotional and spiritual", which would go on and on for trillions of years trillions of times over forever?
Yeah really, why?
That's how bad we are. Simple.
"ultimate Gandalf"? Mm.
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