RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approach to preaching
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/20/2008 1:01:35 AM
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sledmt
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I have respect for Ray Comfort. That being said, I believe that at different times in his ministry he should operate in a word of knowledge.
I know that we will disagree, but his ministry more than likely does suffer. If we don't speak the word of knowledge that the Spirit gives and choose to ignore that word, we limit what the Spirit can do in this individual.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/20/2008 11:50:44 AM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
I have respect for Ray Comfort. That being said, I believe that at different times in his ministry he should operate in a word of knowledge.
I know that we will disagree, but his ministry more than likely does suffer. If we don't speak the word of knowledge that the Spirit gives and choose to ignore that word, we limit what the Spirit can do in this individual.
What if God has chosen to not gift Mr. Comfort with words of knowledge? Did God make a mistake there?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/20/2008 12:09:13 PM
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twincities
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wow.. this got off topic quick....
just watch his show.. its mainly about witnessing to someone using the ten commandments.. very straight forward stuff.. some agree some disagree with this approach.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/20/2008 2:23:19 PM
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sledmt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
I have respect for Ray Comfort. That being said, I believe that at different times in his ministry he should operate in a word of knowledge.
I know that we will disagree, but his ministry more than likely does suffer. If we don't speak the word of knowledge that the Spirit gives and choose to ignore that word, we limit what the Spirit can do in this individual.
What if God has chosen to not gift Mr. Comfort with words of knowledge? Did God make a mistake there?
You assume that since he is not moving in it that the Lord has not giving him the gift.
I should have phrased it another way, his ministry doesn't suffer, but his existing ministry is much more effective at reaching the lost when moving in the word of knowledge. I believe the gifts are given when they will bring glory and praise to the Lord.
I'm just looking at one aspect of his ministry.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/20/2008 2:24:58 PM
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sledmt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: twincities
wow.. this got off topic quick....
just watch his show.. its mainly about witnessing to someone using the ten commandments.. very straight forward stuff.. some agree some disagree with this approach.
I would not say that word of knowledge is off topic. But just one aspect of his ministry. Or one could say maybe lack of.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/20/2008 4:00:59 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
I have respect for Ray Comfort. That being said, I believe that at different times in his ministry he should operate in a word of knowledge.
I know that we will disagree, but his ministry more than likely does suffer. If we don't speak the word of knowledge that the Spirit gives and choose to ignore that word, we limit what the Spirit can do in this individual.
And on what basis do you claim that Comfort does not have the gift, or if he does have the gift that he ignores it. Maybe it bothers you because Comfort does not play the WOF game of stating "Thus sayeth the Lord thy God" thingy when he is ministering.
I guess I just really do not get why you think that witnessing must include a 'Word of Knowledge". That just sounds kinda "Super-Spiritual", you know like those hacks on TBN.
But that just might be me.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/20/2008 4:09:50 PM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
I have respect for Ray Comfort. That being said, I believe that at different times in his ministry he should operate in a word of knowledge.
I know that we will disagree, but his ministry more than likely does suffer. If we don't speak the word of knowledge that the Spirit gives and choose to ignore that word, we limit what the Spirit can do in this individual.
And on what basis do you claim that Comfort does not have the gift, or if he does have the gift that he ignores it. Maybe it bothers you because Comfort does not play the WOF game of stating "Thus sayeth the Lord thy God" thingy when he is ministering.
I guess I just really do not get why you think that witnessing must include a 'Word of Knowledge". That just sounds kinda "Super-Spiritual", you know like those hacks on TBN.
But that just might be me.
Thanks
RC
I agree. I've always found words of knowledge a little hinky. I'm not saying they can't happen but most of the ones i've encountered and even spoken over me were generalities or have not come to pass which makes me think they were phony and given for the self-importance of the giver. They are definitely not a requirement for witnessing. For that you need the message of the redemptive power of the cross and knowledge of the sin that makes salvation necessary and every time I have heard Comfort witness on Way Of The Master Radio, these have been clear.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/20/2008 4:16:41 PM
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sledmt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
I have respect for Ray Comfort. That being said, I believe that at different times in his ministry he should operate in a word of knowledge.
I know that we will disagree, but his ministry more than likely does suffer. If we don't speak the word of knowledge that the Spirit gives and choose to ignore that word, we limit what the Spirit can do in this individual.
And on what basis do you claim that Comfort does not have the gift, or if he does have the gift that he ignores it. Maybe it bothers you because Comfort does not play the WOF game of stating "Thus sayeth the Lord thy God" thingy when he is ministering.
I guess I just really do not get why you think that witnessing must include a 'Word of Knowledge". That just sounds kinda "Super-Spiritual", you know like those hacks on TBN.
But that just might be me.
Thanks
RC
All the shows that I have seen, I have never seen anything that remotely resember a word of knowledge. Maybe I have just missed all the right "times". Nothing comes to mind. I have friends that operate in this gift at a regular freq. On top of that, I have never seen Ray Comfort talk about it either.
Do we want to witness from our flesh, or from the Spirit. Its about proclaiming the Gospel in power. Why not use all the tools provided by the Spirit the God. Why settle for anything less. I don't understand someone not wanting all the gifts for the indivdual their witness for.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/20/2008 4:21:38 PM
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sledmt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
I have respect for Ray Comfort. That being said, I believe that at different times in his ministry he should operate in a word of knowledge.
I know that we will disagree, but his ministry more than likely does suffer. If we don't speak the word of knowledge that the Spirit gives and choose to ignore that word, we limit what the Spirit can do in this individual.
And on what basis do you claim that Comfort does not have the gift, or if he does have the gift that he ignores it. Maybe it bothers you because Comfort does not play the WOF game of stating "Thus sayeth the Lord thy God" thingy when he is ministering.
I guess I just really do not get why you think that witnessing must include a 'Word of Knowledge". That just sounds kinda "Super-Spiritual", you know like those hacks on TBN.
But that just might be me.
Thanks
RC
I agree. I've always found words of knowledge a little hinky. I'm not saying they can't happen but most of the ones i've encountered and even spoken over me were generalities or have not come to pass which makes me think they were phony and given for the self-importance of the giver. They are definitely not a requirement for witnessing. For that you need the message of the redemptive power of the cross and knowledge of the sin that makes salvation necessary and every time I have heard Comfort witness on Way Of The Master Radio, these have been clear.
When we see someone not correctly moving in this, this should bother us enough to seek the Lord and show us how to correctly move in this gift so others can learn from us.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/20/2008 5:26:58 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
When we see someone not correctly moving in this, this should bother us enough to seek the Lord and show us how to correctly move in this gift so others can learn from us.
Oh please kind sir, enlighten us in how to operate correctly with this gift so we can be a witness to Christ?
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/20/2008 5:53:27 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
I don't understand someone not wanting all the gifts for the indivdual their witness for.
Where in Scripture does it say every gift is available for each individual believer?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/20/2008 5:57:42 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 1144
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From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
When we see someone not correctly moving in this, this should bother us enough to seek the Lord and show us how to correctly move in this gift so others can learn from us.
It may not for a certain individual to move in that particular gift. We all have different gifts. If the 'word of knowledge' gift isn't for you, then praying for it won't do you any good. Nobody has all the gifts. If there was, I sure would like to meet this super-Christian.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/21/2008 2:01:07 AM
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sledmt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Oh please kind sir, enlighten us in how to operate correctly with this gift so we can be a witness to Christ?
RC
Your statement reminded me of something the Lord was revealing to me. Don't just talk about it, but move in it. Although I have had friends that move in it, I need to be a man that does it.
That statement I was trying to say was that I believe that across all churchs we see copy cat witnessessing. Because the pastor says thou said the Lord, the people under him say the same thing. Because the pastor in the Baptist church hands out tracts, so does the members in the church. My desire is to see people lead of the Spirit. To the lady in the check line you give a tract, to the man at the gas station you give a prophetic word, and to the police officer a word of knowledge. We need to follow the Lord and example and be ready to proclaim the Gospel however the Lord would have us do it.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/21/2008 9:40:45 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
That statement I was trying to say was that I believe that across all churchs we see copy cat witnessessing. Because the pastor says thou said the Lord, the people under him say the same thing. Because the pastor in the Baptist church hands out tracts, so does the members in the church. My desire is to see people lead of the Spirit. To the lady in the check line you give a tract, to the man at the gas station you give a prophetic word, and to the police officer a word of knowledge. We need to follow the Lord and example and be ready to proclaim the Gospel however the Lord would have us do it.
Why do you not think that Comfort is following the Lord?
Just because he does not do it as you see fit; certainly does not mean that he is not following the Lord.
I have never heard Billy Graham give a word of knowledge and all his salvic sermons are very similiar; do your consider him and the millions he has led to the Lord as false or off base?
When Paul went to the gentiles (Greeks) and preached at Mars Hill, did he use a "Word of Kowledge" or just the simple gospel?
If you think that you must give a word of knowledge or a prophetic word, or a word of wisdom to show folks God is real; then have at it, but why trash folks who think the the Gospel is sufficient.
Jesus spoke to how folks were going to come to belive in Him here when He was talking to the Diciples;
(Joh 17:20) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
And "Their word" that folks will believe in Christ is of course the New Testament.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/21/2008 2:19:42 PM
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terryjohn
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First heard Ray Comfort preach in Whangarei, New Zealand in the late 1980s just before he left for the states. At the time he talked bout the need to preach the law so that grace might be seen as such. He also talked about hell and this is why some local churches refused to support him for they did not see the gospel as having to include such details.
I like Ray. I remember a joke he shared with us. One day after he had breached in his home church, an elder came up to him and whispered "Comfort, the simple minded!"
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/21/2008 2:30:00 PM
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LCannon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
I don't understand someone not wanting all the gifts for the indivdual their witness for.
Where in Scripture does it say every gift is available for each individual believer?
Romans 12:6-'We have faculties unique to the grace given us; exercise them according to one’s level of simple faith. 7 Seize your opportunities for service and in so doing teach the validity of Christ’s sacrifice. 8 When he exhorts to further obedience, exhort for the spiritual growth of the body since you’ll be included. When he gives, give in cooperation [for] God will accomplish His purposes and missing an opportunity to participate with God’s sacrifice misses our blessing to be involved. When one is a leader, lead with authority and diligence; When you’re called to show mercy, show mercy genuinely 9[and]let your love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is arrogant but cling to what is obedient to Christ. 10 Give mutual preference in honor 11 with no lag in due diligence and always fervent in your service as your sacrifice to the Lord. 12 Rejoice in your hope, persevering in tribulation and devoted in obedience 13 contributing to the needs of the saints and practicing consideration.'
Ray's approach has it's place more often that a 'sweetness' usually on a one(or first)opportunity meeting. Probably it's not the best, even good, approach for friends/family/previous acquaintance.
< Message edited by LCannon -- 11/21/2008 2:37:14 PM >
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/21/2008 3:07:18 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Probably it's not the best, even good, approach for friends/family/previous acquaintance.
I agree. In most cases, this wouldn't be appropriate to use in connection with relational evangelism.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/21/2008 5:03:11 PM
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sledmt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Why do you not think that Comfort is following the Lord?
Just because he does not do it as you see fit; certainly does not mean that he is not following the Lord.
I have never heard Billy Graham give a word of knowledge and all his salvic sermons are very similiar; do your consider him and the millions he has led to the Lord as false or off base?
Thanks
RC
I'm not saying that I think Ray Comfort is a false teacher. Here a simple way of looking at it.
Let's say that you and the Lord are out in a open field. The Lord tells you to start digging a basement for a house and then provides you with a shovel. Before you start, he tells you that a short time later he will provide you with a front end loader. So you passioniately start digging with your shovel. One later, the Lord returns with the front end loader and says, here you are. But, for whatever reason, you decide that you like your shovel and continue to dig with it, instead of using the better piece of equipment the Lord provided.
I know this is a crude comparsion, but I believe that in some respects this is what a lot of people in the church for guilty of. The Lord has said in his word that here are some better tools for the job, but for a number of reasons, we have decided to use the "shovel".
Using the tools of the Spirit, just helps us with the "job" of witnessing.
Way not desire the tools the Lord has provided. That all I'm really saying.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/21/2008 7:59:05 PM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Why do you not think that Comfort is following the Lord?
Just because he does not do it as you see fit; certainly does not mean that he is not following the Lord.
I have never heard Billy Graham give a word of knowledge and all his salvic sermons are very similiar; do your consider him and the millions he has led to the Lord as false or off base?
Thanks
RC
I'm not saying that I think Ray Comfort is a false teacher. Here a simple way of looking at it.
Let's say that you and the Lord are out in a open field. The Lord tells you to start digging a basement for a house and then provides you with a shovel. Before you start, he tells you that a short time later he will provide you with a front end loader. So you passioniately start digging with your shovel. One later, the Lord returns with the front end loader and says, here you are. But, for whatever reason, you decide that you like your shovel and continue to dig with it, instead of using the better piece of equipment the Lord provided.
I know this is a crude comparsion, but I believe that in some respects this is what a lot of people in the church for guilty of. The Lord has said in his word that here are some better tools for the job, but for a number of reasons, we have decided to use the "shovel".
Using the tools of the Spirit, just helps us with the "job" of witnessing.
Way not desire the tools the Lord has provided. That all I'm really saying.
So would the shovel be the message of Christ crucified for the forgiveness of sins and repentance? And if so, isn't that enough? Why do you need prophecy and words of knowledge as it relates to witnessing (when most unbelievers don't know what they are and could care less?) Is the gospel message not showy enough?
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/21/2008 10:57:56 PM
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sledmt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
So would the shovel be the message of Christ crucified for the forgiveness of sins and repentance? And if so, isn't that enough? Why do you need prophecy and words of knowledge as it relates to witnessing (when most unbelievers don't know what they are and could care less?) Is the gospel message not showy enough?
Go read John 4:10-25. Here we see Christ moving in the word of knowledge among others things. Too showy for you?
Do you think that woman would have accepted Christ had he given her a tract. Maybe read the ten commandments to her? Who knows, but we do know that he gave her a word of knowledge.
The "shovel" is how the Gospel is proclaimed, not the Gospel it self.
Just a simple outline
Shovel == tract
Front end loader == word of knowledge with tract.
Make sense.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/21/2008 11:18:54 PM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
So would the shovel be the message of Christ crucified for the forgiveness of sins and repentance? And if so, isn't that enough? Why do you need prophecy and words of knowledge as it relates to witnessing (when most unbelievers don't know what they are and could care less?) Is the gospel message not showy enough?
Go read John 4:10-25. Here we see Christ moving in the word of knowledge among others things. Too showy for you?
Do you think that woman would have accepted Christ had he given her a tract. Maybe read the ten commandments to her? Who knows, but we do know that he gave her a word of knowledge.
The "shovel" is how the Gospel is proclaimed, not the Gospel it self.
Just a simple outline
Shovel == tract
Front end loader == word of knowledge with tract.
Make sense.
So we are always going to receive a word of knowledge about someone's past? Is this a requirement for witnessing? Am I not to witness to someone unless I receive a word of knowledge? All I am saying is it's not always necessary. Sometimes tracts and using the ten commandments do work. If God gives you a word of knowledge about the person, great! Use it! But the message alone should be enough in a general sense.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/21/2008 11:33:59 PM
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sledmt
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That was all was saying this whole time. I don't expect to see a word of knowledge with ever persons I'm talking with, but I will always ask the Lord for a word while I'm talking with them.
I think part of the confusion is what you would call the Gospel message and what I would call it.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/21/2008 11:42:27 PM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
That was all was saying this whole time. I don't expect to see a word of knowledge with ever persons I'm talking with, but I will always ask the Lord for a word while I'm talking with them.
I think part of the confusion is what you would call the Gospel message and what I would call it.
I call the gospel message the fact that all men are born in sin, Christ came and died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins, if you repent and confess that Jesus is Lord, you will be saved. I think the Law provides a guide to show people that they have sinned and they need to repent. If people don't see the sin in their lives that the grace covers, then they are falsely converted. That's the simple version I know but that's what I think it boils down to.
If while you are witnessing the Lord reveals to you a word of knowledge about that person, then God be praised. But that core message that I stated above should be the main point of every witnessing encounter.
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/22/2008 12:31:20 AM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
I know this is a crude comparsion
Actually, it's not a bad one, but I still disagree with it. Here's a few questions -
Where in Scripture is it said that every Christian will get the front end loader (or - where in Scripture does it say everyone has access to all gifts)?
Do you really think some gifts are better than others?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: The things I don't like about Ray Comfort's approac... - 11/22/2008 6:08:41 PM
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sledmt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
I know this is a crude comparsion
Actually, it's not a bad one, but I still disagree with it. Here's a few questions -
Where in Scripture is it said that every Christian will get the front end loader (or - where in Scripture does it say everyone has access to all gifts)?
Do you really think some gifts are better than others?
Where does in the Scripture says that most Christian don't need to opeate in any gifts?
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