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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 11/27/2008 9:45:31 PM
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sirwintery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chasbeck1
If you have the faith to believe that all things are possible with God, then who know what you might see.
The history of fakery with recordings and radio and audio devices is well known. I won't ignore this on the suggestion that a lack of faith prevents me from seeing it as "angelic".
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 11/29/2008 1:08:39 AM
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lw9
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quote:
How do you account then for all the places in scripture where angels, (who are messesgers from God) have appeared with a message or instructions for a certain purpose.
What message or instruction did Upton's angel bring?
quote:
I play guitar on the worship team, and there have been times when it felt like some one other than myself was playing my guitar. Literally like some one or something else was moving my hands.
Where in scripture have you found angels possessing human bodies? If you cannot find valid examples of angel possession, then what were you really experiencing?
quote:
I'm not here to question what others experience during worship, I just know what I have experienced.
Why aren't you questioning these things? Experience doesn't make anything truth and God commands us to test the spirits. That means you have to question, discern, compare to scripture, and make judgments.
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chasbeck1: Our worship team spent several evenings after the conference talking with Jason and His team. Much of the time we talked about the angel experience.
quote:
Kat_D: And herein lies the BIG problem. The majority of your time together was spent discussing "the angel experience."
That's exactly what stood out to me, too.
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 12/11/2008 11:03:21 PM
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B5andtheNight
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When I first heard one of Jasons Songs -In Your Presence- Tears filled my eyes. He has a God given talent and uses it to spread a longing to be closer with Christ. I do not understand all the negative notions brewed towards this man and the mention of false doctrines, loonies, and the like. I am Lutheran and from what I know of the man is he Loves the Lord with all his heart, mind & Soul and seems to Love his neighbors as himself.
That is what Christ said was the most important thing we could do...
So, if in all honesty people believe there was something beyond natural happening that day & that something beyond natural got recorded on that song. God Bless them. The Bible is filled with folks who were considered abnormal- who saw & did amazing things. I fear we have conditioned ourselves to drowned out the voice of God, Angels, or anything that may carry a hint of the Divine.
Peace.......
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 12/12/2008 12:04:19 PM
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sirwintery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: B5andtheNight
I fear we have conditioned ourselves to drowned out the voice of God, Angels, or anything that may carry a hint of the Divine.
Some have "conditioned" themselves to take anything that comes out of the new apostolic/elijah list/joyner/bickle/engle crowd without question. For example, what would cause you to endorse Upton as someone who "Loves the Lord with all his heart, mind & Soul and seems to Love his neighbors as himself." while deciding that those critical have "drowned out the voice of God, Angels, or anything that may carry a hint of the Divine."? Could it be your mind is made up without turning on critical thinking regarding these matters? ...just for your consideration
And I was thinking that no matter how many times gold dust is exposed as roll-on glitter or angel feathers begin to quack, the myths keep rolling on, the facts notwithstanding.
And yes God can work supernaturally including sending angels, but not to sing on recordings to no purpose but to boost the notoriety of the recording.
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 12/12/2008 5:19:15 PM
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B5andtheNight
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quote:
For example, what would cause you to endorse Upton as someone who "Loves the Lord with all his heart, mind & Soul and seems to Love his neighbors as himself." while deciding that those critical have "drowned out the voice of God, Angels, or anything that may carry a hint of the Divine."? Could it be your mind is made up without turning on critical thinking regarding these matters?
Sorry if you took my comments as judging people who didn't care for Jason Uptons religious affiliations. I did not mean anyone critical of Jason was drowning out the voice of God, etc. Judging was the issue I have of this type of thread. My point was if people (Jason) "in all honesty" (meaning they believe they are telling the truth), saw or heard something that was beyond natural. Perhaps we should not be quick to judge them as loony, using that to make a buck or promote an album. Of course, I am just a fan of Jasons. I'm not a Charismatic or Prophetic type. Just a newbie here who is surprised at the amount of negativity I find on a Christian forum. So, if you have facts or information you could point to that shows Jason is not being truthful and using it for personal gain. Then, I would be disappointed and think differently of him as an authentic Christian out to do the Lords work...
My mind is made up only to the point of the knowledge I hold at a specific time.
Peace...
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 12/13/2008 7:49:59 AM
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sirwintery
Posts: 1980
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quote:
ORIGINAL: B5andtheNight
quote:
For example, what would cause you to endorse Upton as someone who "Loves the Lord with all his heart, mind & Soul and seems to Love his neighbors as himself." while deciding that those critical have "drowned out the voice of God, Angels, or anything that may carry a hint of the Divine."? Could it be your mind is made up without turning on critical thinking regarding these matters?
Sorry if you took my comments as judging people who didn't care for Jason Uptons religious affiliations. I did not mean anyone critical of Jason was drowning out the voice of God, etc. Judging was the issue I have of this type of thread. My point was if people (Jason) "in all honesty" (meaning they believe they are telling the truth), saw or heard something that was beyond natural. Perhaps we should not be quick to judge them as loony, using that to make a buck or promote an album. Of course, I am just a fan of Jasons. I'm not a Charismatic or Prophetic type. Just a newbie here who is surprised at the amount of negativity I find on a Christian forum. So, if you have facts or information you could point to that shows Jason is not being truthful and using it for personal gain. Then, I would be disappointed and think differently of him as an authentic Christian out to do the Lords work...
My mind is made up only to the point of the knowledge I hold at a specific time.
Peace...
Let me respond in this way..."Hey I just used the recording software on my computer to record a song. Surprise! I hear an angel when I play it back! Would you like to buy one?"
Now are you going to doubt my sincerity and what would be the criteria for that doubt? See, there is much more to it than "negativity", but thank you for your response.
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 12/13/2008 10:04:17 PM
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B5andtheNight
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quote:
..."Hey I just used the recording software on my computer to record a song. Surprise! I hear an angel when I play it back! Would you like to buy one?"
Now are you going to doubt my sincerity and what would be the criteria for that doubt?
Hmmmmm....how about "Hey, we're some Church elders and we put together some books. Suprise, the words were inspired by God! Would you like to buy one?"
Sorry, couldn't resist. Plus I doubt Bibles were sold originally. But, you could give a case that they were created for another agenda to provide personal gain for those involved. Either way, most analogies come up short. Sounds like your mind is made up as well, that Jason was not honest and is using the Angel angle for personal gain.
I'm no expert on Jason and he very well may have. But, there's nothing I've seen that indicates he's not 100% dedicated to giving the glory to God. So again, perhaps you can point me to something that shows he is a selfish man who would use trickery to make a buck. Until then, I'll take him by the fruits he's sown that I know of.
As far as the Angels singing- I have my doubts and would probably lean towards saying it was some type of audio anomaly. But, I would never rule out the possibility that it was something beyond our comprehension.
If I were a gambling man- Between our intelligence being so superior that we can easily explain away anything Godly VS our intelligence is that of an infant in the great cosmos of understanding. My money is on that we are cosmic idiots that rarely touch the true spiritual aspects of our minds.
With that, I need to go now and watch the Simpsons. Just kidding...
I'm sure there's a good show on the Discovery channel that is trying to
explain away another Biblical event.
Peace.....
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 12/13/2008 10:41:17 PM
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sirwintery
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I had a longer reply that I had opted not to give earlier - here's part of it. There are a number of threads that have and will come up regarding the New Apostolic/Latter Rain/Elijah List/Joyner/Bickle types that Upton associates with. If you are actually an objective newcomer to these matters it will take time to read all that is available even on the forum here about this.
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 12/14/2008 3:09:58 AM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
Let me respond in this way..."Hey I just used the recording software on my computer to record a song. Surprise! I hear an angel when I play it back! Would you like to buy one?"
Now are you going to doubt my sincerity and what would be the criteria for that doubt? See, there is much more to it than "negativity", but thank you for your response.
As I've said before . . whether it was an angel or not . .
Upton himself never used it as a selling point.
At least give the guy some credit where credit is due.
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 12/14/2008 8:54:10 AM
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sirwintery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
Let me respond in this way..."Hey I just used the recording software on my computer to record a song. Surprise! I hear an angel when I play it back! Would you like to buy one?"
Now are you going to doubt my sincerity and what would be the criteria for that doubt? See, there is much more to it than "negativity", but thank you for your response.
As I've said before . . whether it was an angel or not . .
Upton himself never used it as a selling point.
At least give the guy some credit where credit is due.
Hey Ben, you know I love you, but..."Someone else said there's an angel singing on my album. I can't help that. Would you like to buy one?"
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 12/14/2008 8:59:11 PM
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rawr.ben
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Right. He should have told no one to buy his album. My bad.
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 12/15/2008 10:42:55 AM
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sirwintery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
Right. He should have told no one to buy his album. My bad.
Actually he should look at the long line of fake angel recordings and expose and renounce the nonsense. Saying that an angel is on the recording is absolutely the same as promoting it for personal gain...there is no not promoting it unless he does renounce the angel claims and denounce the perpetrators.
This is _exactly_ the kind of conversation you can have--and in fact I have had--with the promoters of "bigfoot" recordings. Something made a sound so you can't deny it's real. Wrong. Sounds can be created or altered, by speed, tone, eq tweaking, combining sounds and more.
An angel would sing on Upton's recording giving "God's" endorsement to it because why? Because he's a Latter Rain favorite helping to lead God's people down the road to a sixty-six percent "best" prophecy experience?
Angels don't show up in humble places with people with a child-like trust in God, do they? It's always at a highly promoted conference with lovers of "the supernatural", whatever that is...even if it's water dripping from a ceiling tile, don't question it. To question would be to become disillusioned regarding "the supernatural".
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Why not trust an angel? - 1/24/2009 2:19:32 PM
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mightyprayerwarrior
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I see people saying we shouldn't trust angels?
I have never read that we should not trust angels any where in the bible.
I have read:
<< 1 John 4:1 >>
King James Bible
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world
AND
1 John 4:2-3 2 "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world." NIV
The bible also says that Angles are Ministering Spirits in
Hebrews 1:4-14 NKJV
"Let all the angels of God worship Him." F5 7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire." F6 8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions." F7 10 And: "You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. 11 They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment; 12 Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail." F8 13 But to which of the angels has He ever said: "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool"? F9 14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation? "
What if Peter shunned the angel who helped him get out of prison because "we don't trust angels"?
What if Joseph didn't trust the angel and didn't take marry as his wife? Matthew 1:20
or Mat: 2:13 take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him."
I can go on and on and on about angel assistance. and even give you Scriptures of angels worshiping God.
We don't worship angels and we do test the spirit. If the spirit is worshiping God thru Jesus, then you can trust that angel.
The song fly is very scriptural and spirit lead. If people will stop listening to what "man" says and start digging into the word to find the truth and not prove someone wrong but to get closer to God, then the word will come to life in all of us.
All this talk about about heretics and blaspheming is ridiculous. It sounds like the mouths of the Pharisees.
We are suppose to be Christians: We are suppose to build each other up and not tear each other down. The tearing down is what turns the world off.
So what if we have theological differences in what happens in the future or if we get ruptured first then the trib. or the trib starts then we get ruptured. WHO CARES... Who cares if someone speaks in tongues. It doesn't mean he isn't on fire for God.
The Main thing is that we all receive Jesus as our personal savior. After that we work out (or walk out) our salvation. If we are screwing up it is not for people to get self righteous and point fingers saying your not doing that right so your going to hell. That is very dangerous to condemn anyone to hell.
salvation is a heart condition and I am glad that God did not give me the job to judge someone's salvation and I'm glad he didn't give it to a lot of people I have seen on threads. AND IM REALLY GLAD he didn't give it to my grandma or I would have been condemned to hell at birth...lol.
As far as Jason Upton, I, just today have learned of his ministry and from his music and the few interviews of I have heard on utube. Jason seems to be very humble and in love with Jesus. His heart seems to be toward saving the lost and not imposing his "religion" on anyone. If we will lay down "religion" and focus on Jesus, we will all be one.
I'm wondering how many religious cows I have tipped over... I'm sure I will find out.
0
Be blessed and the word blessed lietteraly means "empowered to prosper" OOOooooOOOooo that's a different board. ;)
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/24/2009 2:51:41 PM
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rcjames
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I percieve the sound tech that claimed this (and Upton for permitting him to) are both full of something; but it ain't the Holy Sp;irit.
Maybe they can go to Toronto, and sing while the Holy Spirit shakes the ficus tree and get a whole group going.
I really hate to be cynical; but.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Why not trust an angel? - 1/24/2009 4:25:59 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mightyprayerwarrior
I see people saying we shouldn't trust angels?
I have never read that we should not trust angels any where in the bible.
Have you also read that even if an "angel of light" comes to you and yet preaches a Gospel different than what has once already been delivered.... that he is to be cursed.
Have you also read that Satan masquerades to fool even the elect?
The Latter Rain/Word of Faith crowds love using angel stories that end up taking the focus off of Jesus and rather on emotions, experiences and so-called visions - which ironically enough contradict not only Scripture but each other.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Why not trust an angel? - 1/24/2009 4:44:06 PM
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sledmt
Posts: 412
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: mightyprayerwarrior
I see people saying we shouldn't trust angels?
I have never read that we should not trust angels any where in the bible.
Have you also read that even if an "angel of light" comes to you and yet preaches a Gospel different than what has once already been delivered.... that he is to be cursed.
Have you also read that Satan masquerades to fool even the elect?
The Latter Rain/Word of Faith crowds love using angel stories that end up taking the focus off of Jesus and rather on emotions, experiences and so-called visions - which ironically enough contradict not only Scripture but each other.
Then we have the other extreme like Grace to You and like, that hear anything about angels and start running the other direction while crying about deception. There need to be middle ground.
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RE: Why not trust an angel? - 1/24/2009 7:04:29 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: mightyprayerwarrior
I see people saying we shouldn't trust angels?
I have never read that we should not trust angels any where in the bible.
Have you also read that even if an "angel of light" comes to you and yet preaches a Gospel different than what has once already been delivered.... that he is to be cursed.
Have you also read that Satan masquerades to fool even the elect?
The Latter Rain/Word of Faith crowds love using angel stories that end up taking the focus off of Jesus and rather on emotions, experiences and so-called visions - which ironically enough contradict not only Scripture but each other.
Then we have the other extreme like Grace to You and like, that hear anything about angels and start running the other direction while crying about deception. There need to be middle ground.
The only "middle ground" for me is for one's focus to be on Jesus Christ. Not 40% feelings, 20% experiences, 15% angels, etc..
Maybe that's just me.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/25/2009 1:36:39 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 2597
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: mightyprayerwarrior
I see people saying we shouldn't trust angels?
I have never read that we should not trust angels any where in the bible.
Have you also read that even if an "angel of light" comes to you and yet preaches a Gospel different than what has once already been delivered.... that he is to be cursed.
Have you also read that Satan masquerades to fool even the elect?
The Latter Rain/Word of Faith crowds love using angel stories that end up taking the focus off of Jesus and rather on emotions, experiences and so-called visions - which ironically enough contradict not only Scripture but each other.
Then we have the other extreme like Grace to You and like, that hear anything about angels and start running the other direction while crying about deception. There need to be middle ground.
The only "middle ground" for me is for one's focus to be on Jesus Christ. Not 40% feelings, 20% experiences, 15% angels, etc..
Maybe that's just me.
No, not just you.
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RE: Why not trust an angel? - 1/25/2009 1:50:32 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 265
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From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mightyprayerwarrior
I see people saying we shouldn't trust angels?
I have never read that we should not trust angels any where in the bible.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Have you also read that even if an "angel of light" comes to you and yet preaches a Gospel different than what has once already been delivered.... that he is to be cursed.
Have you also read that Satan masquerades to fool even the elect?
The Latter Rain/Word of Faith crowds love using angel stories that end up taking the focus off of Jesus and rather on emotions, experiences and so-called visions - which ironically enough contradict not only Scripture but each other.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
Then we have the other extreme like Grace to You and like, that hear anything about angels and start running the other direction while crying about deception. There need to be middle ground.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
The only "middle ground" for me is for one's focus to be on Jesus Christ. Not 40% feelings, 20% experiences, 15% angels, etc..
Maybe that's just me.
I agree with you Earthless. We are never told in scripture to focus on angels, to talk to them, to hope for an appearance. My focus is on God.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Why not trust an angel? - 1/26/2009 1:33:46 PM
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mightyprayerwarrior
Posts: 2
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[
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: mightyprayerwarrior
I see people saying we shouldn't trust angels?
I have never read that we should not trust angels any where in the bible.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Have you also read that even if an "angel of light" comes to you and yet preaches a Gospel different than what has once already been delivered.... that he is to be cursed.
Have you also read that Satan masquerades to fool even the elect?
The Latter Rain/Word of Faith crowds love using angel stories that end up taking the focus off of Jesus and rather on emotions, experiences and so-called visions - which ironically enough contradict not only Scripture but each other.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
Then we have the other extreme like Grace to You and like, that hear anything about angels and start running the other direction while crying about deception. There need to be middle ground.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
The only "middle ground" for me is for one's focus to be on Jesus Christ. Not 40% feelings, 20% experiences, 15% angels, etc..
Do You mean if you ask Jesus into your heart he wont come into your heart?
Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
You must believe in your heart... Like I always say.. It is a heart condition.
As far as believing or not believing angles. There is balance. Yes Satan comes as an angel of light... That is why we test the spirit. That is why we make sure that spirit Glorifies Jesus. God will never go outside His Word, therefore neither will His angels. If an angel appears it should be pointing toward Jesus. Now if we are morons and choose to ignore the Jesus part and put all our faith and worship in an angel then that is our fault. God made angels and He made them to minister to us. Not for us to minister to them or worship them.
There are many angle accounts in the bible. If angels in the bible were there to warn people and on some accounts they worship Jesus and people saw it. Who says they cant do it now.
I think people get into to much fear about the supernatural that they will never have a super natural thing happen to them. God is a Supernatural God he is not a carnal God.
Anything that happens in the Spirit or Supernatural must Point towards Jesus. If it doesn't, then its not of God.
Just stay Balanced. It is to easy to get way over on one side or the other. Leave your heart open to the supernatural. The Holy Spirit will show you in The Word if its not of God or not.
Look, I have read of Angel accounts people have had and I believe these people have been deceived because the event didn't point to Jesus but what the angel could do for the person. But not every angel account is Satan trying to fool you. He can fool you without dressing up like an angel. The silly thing is, we are arguing about it. We shouldn't be keeping our focus on Jesus and loving each other instead of arguing over angels. On that note I wont be to this forum.
You all be blessed
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RE: Why not trust an angel? - 1/26/2009 3:06:40 PM
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earthless
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Where did any of my posts in this thread give the semblance that one cannot accept Jesus?
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RE: Why not trust an angel? - 1/26/2009 3:30:58 PM
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sledmt
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Like any subject that can be subjective, we need to study the word and see what role angels played. We see angels ministring to Christ. Meeting the women at the tomb. And other places.
As believers I agree that we need to focus on Christ, but if Christ had angels ministring to him, maybe we should too. Like anything in the word, we need to test and see what the fruit is.
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RE: Why not trust an angel? - 1/26/2009 3:34:28 PM
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sledmt
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On a bit of a side note, how many on this thread have actually had encounters with angels?
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RE: Why not trust an angel? - 1/26/2009 3:59:42 PM
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earthless
Posts: 2594
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
On a bit of a side note, how many on this thread have actually had encounters with angels?
Hebrews 13:1-2 "Let brotherly love continue. Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unaware."
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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