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The different types of Atheists - 12/15/2009 6:55:20 PM
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wyattdolan
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So, let me start out by saying that I have known many Atheists in my lifetime--and I once was one. However, I have noticed that there are different types of Atheists, my brother and his girlfriends are good examples(let's call him "T" and her "A").
"T" is an example of a 'salvageable' Atheist; he is tolerant of religion, respects the views of others, and he even understands why some people chose to be religious in spite of what some science may teach. When he and I have conversations regarding religion he listens to what I have to say and often he will give very good insight to the subject. I believe he stands a chance at possibly being saved one day.
But his girlfriend on the other hand is the complete opposite-- she is very intolerant, disrespectful, deceitful at times, very rude, and will have nothing to do with religion in any way, shape, or form. She is even disrespectful of Christians while being a guest in their home! When I try to talk to her or even mention religion around her, she instantly will mock me, insult religion, insult religious people. She won't even hear what I have to say. She, I am afraid, is beyond salvation except if God himself were to slap her silly.
So, have you guys ever encountered different types of Atheists? Atheists who can be saved versus Atheists who are too far gone?
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 12/15/2009 7:00:31 PM
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wyattdolan
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I would also like to add in concern of myself that even though I was very close to being unsalvageable; I feel that there was a small piece of the Holy Spirit in my heart. And then a friend of mine brought me to church and that little Holy Spirit in me grw some. Then i started reading the Bible and it grew some more. And now I am doing my best to be a good Christian, learn the Gospel, and try to help others with it. Do any of you guys think that maybe there are Atheists out there who might have a little piece of Holiness in them that is waiting to get a chance to grow into salvation?
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 12/15/2009 9:09:17 PM
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John_O
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God has miraculously saved Atheists of every stripe.
No one is beyond redemption. With the exception of believers who have turned their back on the gospel.
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 12/18/2009 11:09:55 AM
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stamper_ben
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I was once what you call unsalvageable. Jesus is indeed a God of miracles.
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 12/23/2009 12:32:10 PM
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DaveW
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A good friend of mine was an athiest of the "A" type. He describes his former self as an "evangelical athiest." He came to faith in the Lord in an instant. It took both of us by surprise.
The other type that is more tolerant, I have never seen one of them come to faith.
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 12/25/2009 11:17:39 AM
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ajlewis
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you should check this out:
Atheism as Congruence
This is one of the most thoughtful discussion on Atheism without all the ****, or someone trying to "prove" God doesn't exist.
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 1/11/2010 12:13:17 AM
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wolfvanzandt
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I dunno.
A lot of atheists I run into now make the point that they don't say that God doesn't exist but that, if He did, no one would ever know it and, if they did, they wouldn't be able to prove it, so they prefer to believe that he doesn't exist. I thought that was agnosticism but....whadoIknow?
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 1/13/2010 7:25:37 PM
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wyattdolan
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Actually I'm glad you brought that up, wolfvanzandt. I too have seen many examples of people calling themselves Atheists but having very agnostic beliefs as well as agnostics who are way more like Atheists. There is also a difference between Atheists and anti-theists. Remember, Atheists flat-out don't believe there is a God or any way to prove Him or not; while an anti-theist believes that god does exists, but refuses to worship/follow Him.
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 1/14/2010 2:11:35 AM
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wolfvanzandt
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Back when I was in school, I read a book by one of the founders of modern atheist thought (I'm sorry, I can't remember the guy's name). It was pretty ridiculous - his main argument seemed to be, "We've been in space and no one has seen God there, so he doesn't exist." More recently (in the last 15 years, at least) I read that he accepted Christ before he died and the atheist community was really ticked at him ( :) ).
It looks to me that atheists are getting less confident of their position so they're having to water down their stance. I'm glad they're growing up some because their reasoning has always been pretty lame. I was always mystified at how a really smart guy like Bertrand Russell could jettison all of his cognitive skills and turn into an emotional goo when he got on the topic of religion.
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 1/31/2010 10:32:55 AM
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gralan
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It is considered by some of Christianity's greatest apologists that atheists actually should be considered non-theists, and that the most honest position of non-theism is to be agnostic.
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 1/31/2010 11:03:35 PM
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wolfvanzandt
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And that is the position I hear from atheists today. The problem then is, how do you tell the difference between an atheist and an agnostic, and what word do you use for an agnostic since atheists have taken over their label?
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 2/1/2010 1:35:31 AM
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gralan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wolfvanzandt
And that is the position I hear from atheists today. The problem then is, how do you tell the difference between an atheist and an agnostic, and what word do you use for an agnostic since atheists have taken over their label?
It would seem to me that those previously self-identified "atheists" are radical Fundamentalist agnostics?
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
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The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 2/2/2010 1:02:47 AM
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wolfvanzandt
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:)
Works for me. So now we can call them "RFAs"? (Pronounced "rrrrrrufas" as in "RFAs have ridges.").
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 2/2/2010 1:29:33 PM
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gralan
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But ruffas do have ridges, I've tried them.
Those ridges hold a lot of slop in them.
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 2/2/2010 5:20:52 PM
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EclecticJoy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wyattdolan
So, let me start out by saying that I have known many Atheists in my lifetime--and I once was one. However, I have noticed that there are different types of Atheists, my brother and his girlfriends are good examples(let's call him "T" and her "A").
"T" is an example of a 'salvageable' Atheist; he is tolerant of religion, respects the views of others, and he even understands why some people chose to be religious in spite of what some science may teach. When he and I have conversations regarding religion he listens to what I have to say and often he will give very good insight to the subject. I believe he stands a chance at possibly being saved one day.
But his girlfriend on the other hand is the complete opposite-- she is very intolerant, disrespectful, deceitful at times, very rude, and will have nothing to do with religion in any way, shape, or form. She is even disrespectful of Christians while being a guest in their home! When I try to talk to her or even mention religion around her, she instantly will mock me, insult religion, insult religious people. She won't even hear what I have to say. She, I am afraid, is beyond salvation except if God himself were to slap her silly.
So, have you guys ever encountered different types of Atheists? Atheists who can be saved versus Atheists who are too far gone?
Wyattdolan, why are you proclaiming that someone is beyond salvation; regardless of who they are and what you think you know about them?
Unless you are Our Lord, Himself, how in the world can you even intimate that you know who is and who is beyond redemption?
Have you considered that Our Lord "slapped may former non-Christians silly" and now they have a heart that is on fire and overflowing for Him and that they are doing awesome things through Him and for Him? Paul comes quickly to mind, for example.
Why is it that you, a former Atheist, wasn't beyond Our Lord's grasp, but yet you consider someone else to be? Has His ability to reach people on a personal basis somehow diminished?
If you are concerned about your brother's girlfriend, have you prayed for her?
If you aren't concerned about her, then why are you even talking about her in this manner?
How is discussing her on a Christian message board edifying to her? How is it pointing her to Jesus and HIS Mercy, HIS Love and HIS Forgiveness?
Incidentally . . .
quote:
she is very intolerant, disrespectful, deceitful at times, very rude . . . So are many people who call themselves Christians.
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 2/2/2010 5:40:20 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
quote:
ORIGINAL: wolfvanzandt
And that is the position I hear from atheists today. The problem then is, how do you tell the difference between an atheist and an agnostic, and what word do you use for an agnostic since atheists have taken over their label?
It would seem to me that those previously self-identified "atheists" are radical Fundamentalist agnostics?
From my experience:
Agnostics seem to be content to let everyone do whatever works for them. Atheists seem to be EVANGELICAL, fervent in their efforts to convert others to their religion side.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 2/4/2010 3:06:19 PM
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wyattdolan
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To EclecticJoy
What I meant by saying that she may be beyond salvation is that it seems like she rejects Christ/religion so much that it looks very unlikely that she would ever change her mind. Like I said, she mocks religion and will have nothing to do with it. What helped to save me was that I have friends who were Christians who helped me, and the battle for me wasn't an easy one even with their help. But the difference here is that she will hardly even talk to someone if they're a Christian!
I do see what you are saying and I have considered it.
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 2/4/2010 6:52:35 PM
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gralan
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I would encourage everyone to have confidence that God knows whether or not we are tilling soil, disking soil, fertilizing, seeding, watering, weeding or just patiently waiting to be in on the harvest.
We do not know where others are actually in that process, IMO, nor the role we are playing specifically. We interact with or are witnesses to other people of what it is to belong to God.
Power to the People with whom God is well pleased. PS. That means you.
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The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 2/8/2010 5:40:02 AM
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gralan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wyattdolan
So, let me start out by saying that I have known many Atheists in my lifetime--and I once was one. ....She, I am afraid, is beyond salvation except if God himself were to slap her silly.
So, have you guys ever encountered different types of Atheists? Atheists who can be saved versus Atheists who are too far gone?
notes edited only to shorten to what I'm responding to - ga
I know for myself that God had to slap me around something silly more than once in my life.
I've encountered different types of Athiests... but I've never distinguished their potentiality for salvation. I know that my obstinancy determined the level of what God has done in my life to keep me moving in the direction He wanted for me. To get broken is necessary, even for us, for God disciplines His children.
I know the Bible says God knows who are His. That God the Father, by Jesus' testimony, draws folks to Christ, and Jesus turns right around and gives them back to the Father where no one can snatch them away from His hand.
That troubles some people, in terms of our unique understandings of salvation, election, eternal security. I will leave each to determine on their own how this applies to this conversation here. I think it does by what's been brought up. Perhaps not.
There are a wide range of thinkers representing Athiests Top Ten list. Nietzche (mythological atheist), Sartre (traditionalist), then there are semantic atheists, metaphysical atheists, and a form that suggests that God was in Jesus and died in the crucifixion. Today popular atheists have included Stephen Gould and Richard Dawkins.
I wish I had known this when I was working with an atheist who was a complete cynic. Then I could have probed his thinking more, and made him look at himself, or not as he wished.
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 2/15/2010 3:03:03 PM
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Abbreviated
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Our job is NOT the condition of the soil. That is God's job. Our job is to spread the Good News.
My problem is with the term Ex-Christan. May need to start a thread on it.
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 2/15/2010 5:36:34 PM
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gralan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Abbreviated
Our job is NOT the condition of the soil. That is God's job. Our job is to spread the Good News.
My problem is with the term Ex-Christan. May need to start a thread on it.
I do not believe that there is a condition called ex- or former Christian.
There may be people who flee the church, there may be people never born again into new creations, there may be a number of things covered under the idea of ex-Christian... but the Bible says we are sealed unto the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit.
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 3/6/2010 10:20:21 PM
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sirmixalot
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I believe it was Richard Dawkins who wrote in his book that everyone is a little bit atheist and that atheism runs on a scale of 1-10 in ranking unbelief. The same scale could be applied to the Christian belief as well. Some people believe but no all that into it while others make it everything they have. I generally consider myself agnostic.
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 3/6/2010 10:40:54 PM
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gralan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sirmixalot
I believe it was Richard Dawkins who wrote in his book that everyone is a little bit atheist and that atheism runs on a scale of 1-10 in ranking unbelief. The same scale could be applied to the Christian belief as well. Some people believe but no all that into it while others make it everything they have. I generally consider myself agnostic.
I believe that is intellectually more realistic. I would think that some folks who call themselves Christians actually are agnostic as well.
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 3/7/2010 7:58:34 PM
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Robin-again
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wyattdolan
Actually I'm glad you brought that up, wolfvanzandt. I too have seen many examples of people calling themselves Atheists but having very agnostic beliefs as well as agnostics who are way more like Atheists. There is also a difference between Atheists and anti-theists. Remember, Atheists flat-out don't believe there is a God or any way to prove Him or not; while an anti-theist believes that god does exists, but refuses to worship/follow Him.
Before Jesus came after me and made me acknowledge Him, I believed in having a Maker.
I didn't believe in Jesus or the book called the Bible. I would not acknowledge Him or stay where his name was mentioned.
I wanted nothing to do with Him. Nothing.
When I felt the Holy Spirit fill my empty soul completely up, and felt Jesus in my life standing beside me, I knew then He is real and that He died for my sins so that I would be given a chance to have eternal life and that I'll never feel alone again.
I was able to look back and see the Miracles that had happened in my life and knew instantly that the Bible is the word of God. I knew instantly that every Miracle in the Bible is true...
There isn't a day since last May when Jesus found me that I haven't spoken His name to others.
Somehow the opportunity is presented and I'll say something concerning Him.
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RE: The different types of Atheists - 3/7/2010 7:59:52 PM
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Robin-again
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I forgot to say..I was nearly 56yrs old when this happened to me.
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Things happens in God's time...not in ours.
Some things are not meant for us to understand until we are face to face with God Himself.
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