RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned trainer
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/27/2010 2:17:55 PM
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Sophie11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
The whales seem to have no problem with swimming, jumping, diving, and doing so very accurately.
Well then just study it for yourself rc. Arguing that these whales bred in captivity are going to do just fine if let out in the wild seems a little silly to me.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/27/2010 5:57:21 PM
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prophecyteacher
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I don't know anything about training whales but I grew up on a horse ranch in New Mexico so I do know considerable about training animals that are bigger, stronger, and faster than you are. The object to to make them think you are the boss and NEVER let them find out who the real boss is. Once they do you can't work with them any more. I would guess that the same applies to an animal that not only meets that criteria but is at the TOP of the food chain.
It has been proven that when a killer whale is released back into the wild that the dorsal fin straightens back up so that is no reason to not release it.
You want to see if it can hunt? Quit hand feeding it fishies and throw a couple of live seals into the pool (an Orcas preferred food) and see how long they survive. My guess is not very long.
quote:
That's a lot harder to do than they make it out to be in the movie. Plus the orca would not have any companionship in the wild. Orcas live in groups in the wild, but they are groups consisting of family, and would not permit a stranger to join.
They have never tried it. Try it and see. That would answer the question. Orcas are natural hunters and killers. You can't take that out of them. Turn him loose in the wild near another pod and let the orcas settle the issue.
Don't like that option? Try the fish and chips approach or RC start heating the grill.
< Message edited by prophecyteacher -- 2/27/2010 6:05:33 PM >
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/27/2010 9:44:27 PM
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GodandGuns
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some seem to love animals a bit too much.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/27/2010 10:16:41 PM
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CMT8808
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Oh gees I guess I am wrong! I thought this was a point of Jonah remembered  Silly me
I agree that yes this animal is wild, but I also agree that releasing him to his natural habitat is proper. Just like a kid who fell off his bike, horse or what have, once you get back on he (they) will not fall off.
IOW his instincts will come back to him and he (the whale will be just fine)
CMT
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/27/2010 10:21:15 PM
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GodandGuns
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mollymouser
quote:
ORIGINAL: God_n_Guns
some seem to love animals a bit too much.
And some ... not enough.
sorry i dont love em more.
_____________________________
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW.
The Medic, the unsung hero on every battlefield. It is impossible to imagine the mental/emotional trauma inside a Medic, and there is no triage for that.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/27/2010 10:39:58 PM
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solo_soprano24
Posts: 2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CMT8808
Oh gees I guess I am wrong! I thought this was a point of Jonah remembered Silly me
I agree that yes this animal is wild, but I also agree that releasing him to his natural habitat is proper. Just like a kid who fell off his bike, horse or what have, once you get back on he (they) will not fall off.
IOW his instincts will come back to him and he (the whale will be just fine)
CMT
He has no teeth (maybe remnants, etc.), and has to have his mouth cleaned out daily (more than once, I believe) to rid him of food pieces to ward off infection and bacteria-- and I suppose, to keep his mouth from becoming impacted. I wouldn't release him solely for that reason, although other good reasons are out there.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/27/2010 10:44:02 PM
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solo_soprano24
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quote:
ORIGINAL: God_n_Guns
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mollymouser
quote:
ORIGINAL: God_n_Guns
some seem to love animals a bit too much.
And some ... not enough.
sorry i dont love em more.
I think the conversation is getting strange, because it's not about loving an animal more than loving a human. Some seem to be saying that anyone who doesn't want to kill the whale must love the whale more than the trainer that he killed. I don't see it that way.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/27/2010 10:47:51 PM
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CMT8808
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano24
quote:
ORIGINAL: God_n_Guns
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mollymouser
quote:
ORIGINAL: God_n_Guns
some seem to love animals a bit too much.
And some ... not enough.
sorry i dont love em more.
I think the conversation is getting strange, because it's not about loving an animal more than loving a human. Some seem to be saying that anyone who doesn't want to kill the whale must love the whale more than the trainer that he killed. I don't see it that way.
No it should be about loving God creatures big or small. All are His Masterpiece
CMT
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Never Underestimate the Power of God
Romans 8:28, Proverb 3:5
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 9:00:38 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CMT8808
No it should be about loving God creatures big or small. All are His Masterpiece
Now I do love me some of God's creatures, especially a prime cut sirloin hunk of bovine, although slow cooked baby back bar-g-que ribs are not bad either.
Dispatch the whale that has already killed three humans, and do something profitable and good with the carcass.
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
< Message edited by rcjames -- 2/28/2010 10:49:21 AM >
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 10:59:22 AM
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Sophie11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: God_n_Guns
some seem to love animals a bit too much.
Why? Because we think it's wrong to try to exact revenge on it? You can kill it humanely. There's no need to purposefully send it to a slow and painful death.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 12:16:31 PM
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alwaysinjoy2000
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I love animals, I work part time at a veterinarian but this situation reminds me of what the vet was talking to me about yesterday. We had to put down a young dog due to behavioral and mental issues, it wasn't "right" in the head. The owners elected to put their dog down before it attacked someone in their home or outside it. The vet had warned them since it was maybe a year old this dog was a ticking time bomb waiting to explode, eventually it would bite someone.
She told me that yes it was sad, but it would have been more tragic if this dog had truly harmed a person if they hadn't decided to euthanize their dog so she agreed with this family's choice because it prevented a bad tragedy from occurring in the future.
She then gave an example of a family that came to her years ago with a 5 month old puppy. After the exam she bluntly told them, "Get rid of this puppy, give it back to the breeder, it will not be a good family dog when it's older". It wasn't right in the head. Like people, dogs can also be born "not right" or sociopathic or mentally disturbed. The owners didn't listen, and when it was 2 years old it attacked their 3 year old daughter almost killing her. Even then, the vet told me the owners were torn what to do about the dog, they didn't want to give up the dog even after that! Finally the vet told them frankly: "It's either your children or your dog, who do you value more?" The family didn't want to give up their dog, but the vet was basically telling them this would happen again (not if but when) and the next time it could lead in the death of their child.
So at the end of the day the dog isn't a human being, it's not a person. Yes we tend to put human characteristics and emotions to many animals (especially our pets such as dogs or cats), but they still have the instincts of an animal. And if it's for the safety, rights, or concern of a human or the safety, rights, concern of an animal I will always side with the person.
Oh well IMO I don't think there should even be a debate. I have compassion for animals, but I think in this instance, this whale needs to be humanely euthanized. It's already killed 3 people. There would be no question if it were a dog, I don't know why there needs to be a difference with this whale simply because it's a whale.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 12:59:01 PM
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davelinde
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quote:
ORIGINAL: alwaysinjoy2000
Oh well IMO I don't think there should even be a debate. I have compassion for animals, but I think in this instance, this whale needs to be humanely euthanized. It's already killed 3 people. There would be no question if it were a dog, I don't know why there needs to be a difference with this whale simply because it's a whale.
Because it's not a pet in a home, it's part of the SeaWorld breeding stock.
If the trainers think they can handle it with reasonable risks, they can keep it, if not - they cannot. I'm surely not qualified to say what the risks are with this animal or all the others they keep.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 2:12:57 PM
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rachay2
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The fact that it has killed should be enough reason to put it down. Even if it never harms another human the risk is still there. It has before, so I don't know why they would risk it again.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 3:16:52 PM
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Abbreviated
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This is the largest dolphin that kill's whales in the wild & kills humans in captivity. It shouldn't be near people in captivity. There is no known account of this type of dolphin killing humans while in the wild.
3 strikes he's out ...
Where is PETH when you need them ? People for the Ethical Treatment of Humans !
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 3:16:56 PM
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GodandGuns
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: God_n_Guns
some seem to love animals a bit too much.
Why? Because we think it's wrong to try to exact revenge on it? You can kill it humanely. There's no need to purposefully send it to a slow and painful death.
shooting it isnt sklow and painful and it already has showjn it can effectively feed. my concern the animal will hang around beaches and feed on surfers much like sharks seem to do
_____________________________
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW.
The Medic, the unsung hero on every battlefield. It is impossible to imagine the mental/emotional trauma inside a Medic, and there is no triage for that.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 3:23:43 PM
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alwaysinjoy2000
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davelinde
Because it's not a pet in a home, it's part of the SeaWorld breeding stock.
If the trainers think they can handle it with reasonable risks, they can keep it, if not - they cannot. I'm surely not qualified to say what the risks are with this animal or all the others they keep.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rachay2
The fact that it has killed should be enough reason to put it down. Even if it never harms another human the risk is still there. It has before, so I don't know why they would risk it again.
What rachay2 said.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 3:26:02 PM
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alwaysinjoy2000
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I guess I wasn't clear in my earlier post. I know that whales are NOT pets, however it is an animal. It is not a human being. I value the life of a human being over an animal. Sea World can always replace this whale. The people this whale has killed can not be replaced. Period.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 4:10:39 PM
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garsyt
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Okay.
here's a question.
The trainers that deal with these whales - Where does their responsibility lie? They know full well the dangers involved in dealing with these animals.
And the man that decided stupidly to jump in with whales? What part did he play in causing his own death?
Were the Humans involved at least partially at fault in their own demise? Don't forget these are adults - supposedly with intact brains.
Garsy
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 4:26:32 PM
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stellaluna
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A new article quotes a former SeaWorld trainer who said either the rules had been changed or Dawn Brancheau was not following them the day she was killed.
quote:
The issue of protocols was raised by the former head of animal training at SeaWorld, Thad Lacinak, who said earlier Friday that the rules in place when he left the park in 2008 would not have allowed Brancheau to lie down on a submerged shelf next to the whale, where the animal was able to grab her ponytail.
"She laid completely down, which is a very vulnerable position to be in with an animal like Tilikum. And apparently her ponytail drifted into the water, he just opened his mouth, sucked it in and pulled her in the water," Lacinak, who left SeaWorld in 2008 after a long career to start a consultancy, told The Associated Press.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,587498,00.html
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 4:47:31 PM
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PitaKat
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quote:
ORIGINAL: alwaysinjoy2000
Oh well IMO I don't think there should even be a debate. I have compassion for animals, but I think in this instance, this whale needs to be humanely euthanized. It's already killed 3 people. There would be no question if it were a dog, I don't know why there needs to be a difference with this whale simply because it's a whale.
I agree. I can't believe they're keeping it for breeding purposes, if this animal does have a mental issue, they are risking passing it on to his offspring. Foolish.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 4:53:53 PM
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rachay2
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quote:
here's a question.
The trainers that deal with these whales - Where does their responsibility lie? They know full well the dangers involved in dealing with these animals.
And the man that decided stupidly to jump in with whales? What part did he play in causing his own death?
Were the Humans involved at least partially at fault in their own demise? Don't forget these are adults - supposedly with intact brains.
Garsy
Well, I'd definitely say that the whale shouldn't have to take all the responsibility for what happened, but I think those people payed dearly for their mistakes. Though I'm not really sure that moron who decided to swim with that whale was very bright.
It reminds me of the story years back where some guy out in the ocean decided swimming with wild dolphins would be fun. The hit he took to his
chest when one of the dolphins rammed him probably changed his mind about that.
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What is drama but life with the dull bits cut out. ~Alfred Hitchcock
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 4:55:42 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4249
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PitaKat
quote:
ORIGINAL: alwaysinjoy2000
Oh well IMO I don't think there should even be a debate. I have compassion for animals, but I think in this instance, this whale needs to be humanely euthanized. It's already killed 3 people. There would be no question if it were a dog, I don't know why there needs to be a difference with this whale simply because it's a whale.
I agree. I can't believe they're keeping it for breeding purposes, if this animal does have a mental issue, they are risking passing it on to his offspring. Foolish.
I don't this whale has a mental issue.
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RE: SeaWorld Orlando to keep killer whale that drowned ... - 2/28/2010 5:03:11 PM
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Abbreviated
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My ? is will this deter trainers from wanting to work around Orcas ?
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