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ORIGINAL: jhuperetes

David-West, then the 75th forgot the Ranger's creed.

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David-West
I find it highly debatable that, at least at this point in the war, we're actually protecting freedom. Personally, I see the government as a much bigger threat to freedom than a bunch of third-world guerrillas 10,000 miles away.

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You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger bunch of brigands and hoodlums without going to a straight up street gang. Honestly all they seem to be to me is a government-funded gang, complete with drug smuggling and embezzling operations.

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ORIGINAL: relady
And so I'm sure you are not surprised that many of these guys end up as mercenaries for hire at places like Blackwater. Yup a bunch of real upstanding patriots there.

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Or, do we pick and chose when is the Bible 'Sola Scriptura', as something is or is not convenient?

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I find it very interesting that the people of this country expect mandatory things from the government, but don't believe the government can enfore mandatory things on them.

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ORIGINAL: David-West

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ORIGINAL: jhuperetes
They might even learn some respect, honor and morals.

OK, I've got to call you out on this one. Maybe the 75th Ranger Regiment isn't a good representative of the military as a whole, but people around here have absolutely terrible morals, and most get worse as their time in service wears on. The respect and honor are only facades, and very flimsy ones at that. Even by the leadership I'm often mocked (kinda makes me feel proud, actually) for being open about the fact that I don't drink or have sex. I have never seen such a high concentration of men with no respect for women as I have here. It's disgusting.

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It is the law to register and we must submit.

That's why I've always taken some issue with the idea that Christians should simply do whatever the law says. There are some things the law CAN NOT do, but by the logic of some (not saying you are this way, I'm just going off on a tangent here) we should just bend over and do whatever anyone in a position of authority says. The second amendment says the right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. So if there is ever a sweeping, nationwide ban on guns, doesn't that mean thst the law is illegal? So then which law do we follow?

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But make no mistake - I would put my son in the car and drive him to the draft office myself if the draft were reinstated. And I would remind him of the honor and privilege associated with protecting those who cannot protect themselves, and of defending freedom and democracy. I'd tell him about the men and women who travelled this road before, and of the ones who would come after.

To borrow from the idiom, "Freedom isn't free" we must all understand that the freedoms we enjoy are PAID for by someone. Just as Jesus Christ paid the price for our freedom from Hell, people have paid a high price that we as American enjoy the freedoms we do. Our democracy was made possible by the voluntary risks men and women in our military took upon themselves.

I find it highly debatable that, at least at this point in the war, we're actually protecting freedom. Personally, I see the government as a much bigger threat to freedom than a bunch of third-world guerrillas 10,000 miles away.

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What about cases when the law is contradictory? Can one then choose to follow the highest law of the land? In this case, I think that one could make a very valid case that, as the 13th amendment outlaws involuntary labor, the draft was illegal to begin with. What should you do in a situation like that?

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however, when one breaks the law, one should not whine that one is arrested and taken to jail. I am always amused at people who say, "Let's not follow this law," and then are surprised when there is actually a consequence.

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Actually, if you'd paid attention to the posts I've made you'd have realized that I'm an Army Ranger.

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ORIGINAL: GraceyGirl

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Actually, if you'd paid attention to the posts I've made you'd have realized that I'm an Army Ranger.

Holy cow. Missed that. . .apparently. But . . .holy cow.

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I have yet to hear anything of value that would dissuade me from mandatory draft, or selective service.

There is nothing against God's will about mandatory draft or selective service (two very different things).

What excuse would a Christian have not obeying the government?

Or, do we pick and chose when is the Bible 'Sola Scriptura', as something is or is not convenient?

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ORIGINAL: cposey

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I have yet to hear anything of value that would dissuade me from mandatory draft, or selective service.

There is nothing against God's will about mandatory draft or selective service (two very different things).

What excuse would a Christian have not obeying the government?

Or, do we pick and chose when is the Bible 'Sola Scriptura', as something is or is not convenient?

If you want to speak of civil disobedience concerning the government, didn't Paul speak out against the government? Didn't Meshac, Shadrac, and Abindigo disobey the government? Didn't Moses disobey the government?
Need any more examples of God directing individuals to disobey the government?
As far as the rest of citizens, government is correct in mandating as they choose. If people don't like it, they can voice it come election time.

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You are ignoring the context in which the 13th Amendment came into existence, and in doing so, you erroneously understand its dictates. The 13th Amendment was not conceived in the context of precluding a draft to defend this nation in a war, or a draft to assist this nation involved in a conflagration. The 13 Amendment was a post Civil War amendment and its dictates are best understood by examining the amendment in this context.

So your assumption the 13th Amendment's dictates render illegal a draft is false. Consequently, this renders your claim the draft as being unconstitutional likely false or false in its entirety.

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The text clearly states that slavery and involuntary servitude is illegal, and what is conscription if not involuntary servitude?

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ORIGINAL: David-West

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You are ignoring the context in which the 13th Amendment came into existence, and in doing so, you erroneously understand its dictates. The 13th Amendment was not conceived in the context of precluding a draft to defend this nation in a war, or a draft to assist this nation involved in a conflagration. The 13 Amendment was a post Civil War amendment and its dictates are best understood by examining the amendment in this context.

So your assumption the 13th Amendment's dictates render illegal a draft is false. Consequently, this renders your claim the draft as being unconstitutional likely false or false in its entirety.

"Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation"

The text clearly states that slavery and involuntary servitude is illegal, and what is conscription if not involuntary servitude? So what if they likely weren't referring to the draft when they wrote it? It's arguable that, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness," was intended by many within it's historical context to only refer to white, male landowners, but does that mean that people who don't fit that category shouldn't point out that it IS in the constitution, and that it clearly says "ALL men"?

Your logic just seems to be of the same sort that makes people think the second amendment was written solely with hunting and muskets in mind (though, to be fair, it is ABUNDANTLY by researching the historical context that this is NOT the case).

As Christians, I think it is wrong of us to support conscription. If someone doesn't want to fight in a war, regardless of their reason, what on earth gives you the right to force them into service? I'd have no problem with someone speaking out against those who don't want to serve and trying to convince them to serve if they truly believe in the cause (though this should be done respectfully), but advocating the use of force or punishment to "motivate"' them to agree to being drafted is reprehensible.

I DO believe that good men can wage a righteous war (though much care must be taken in doing so), but if they use a draft to bolster their numbers then what has it all been for? It becomes a sort of Pyrrhic victory. You go from a situation in which good leaders inspire good men (and even if some aren't "good," one can't be held completely accountable for the actions of a few rogue subordinates) to fight evil to a situation in which (ostensibly) good men USED people to defeat evil. Sure, you defeated the "threat," but at what cost? As Christians, does our victory lie in literally winning the war or in how we conduct ourselves in battle?

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The Congress shall have Power To:
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; (except that Congress reauthorizes allocation of funds)

To provide and maintain a Navy; (including the US Marine Corps)

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress

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ORIGINAL: jhuperetes

Mandatory draft.
Both genders.
All, over 18 & under 35.
2 years.
No excuses.

Done.

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ORIGINAL: jhuperetes

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ORIGINAL: GraceyGirl

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Actually, if you'd paid attention to the posts I've made you'd have realized that I'm an Army Ranger.

Holy cow. Missed that. . .apparently. But . . .holy cow.

no, no, no.

I am quite sure he said "Army Ranger". Holy cows are close, but I believe they do not meet the weight requirements of a Ranger.